C-5 Crash Animation

AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
Col. John Lowrey USAF (Ret) sent me this anamation of the recent C-5 Crash at Dover. Its amazing to watch a problem unfold.
 
AdamZ said:
Col. John Lowrey USAF (Ret) sent me this anamation of the recent C-5 Crash at Dover. Its amazing to watch a problem unfold.
Click to expand...

Animation? Forget to attach a file/link?

Gary
 
How big is it, adam? I see you are having some difficulty.
 
Wow - thats pretty scary to watch. When he said, "Weve got nothing left" I just got all tensed up...

So - have they determined the cause? I haven't really followed this story but I saw that one engine was down and another was at partial?
 
Greebo said:
Wow - thats pretty scary to watch. When he said, "Weve got nothing left" I just got all tensed up...

So - have they determined the cause? I haven't really followed this story but I saw that one engine was down and another was at partial?
Click to expand...

I'd like to know more about that too. When did this happen?

From what I saw in the animation they had one dead engine then they brought all throttles back to idle for reasons passing understanding considering that they were 400 feet below glide slope. Then they advanced the throttles but left a good engine at idle while advancing the throttle for the dead engine. At the same time it looks like they went from 40 degrees flaps to 90 degrees. God, I didn't know they had 90 degrees. When it was too late they retrascted the flaps back to 40 degrees.

Did I see that right?

Jeannie
 
Jean I don't think it was 90 degrees I think it was 90 percent of full flaps what ever that is.
 
yep
AdamZ said:
Jean I don't think it was 90 degrees I think it was 90 percent of full flaps what ever that is.
Click to expand...

yep 90%

It was interesting to see that when the throttle controls were pushed forward someone forget it was engine 2 that was out and instead left engine 3, a good engine, at idle. If they had been also watching the nozzle preasures as part of the scan it would have become obvious to them. Instead they kept slowing down and yet no one questioned why.
 
smigaldi said:
yep

yep 90%

It was interesting to see that when the throttle controls were pushed forward someone forget it was engine 2 that was out and instead left engine 3, a good engine, at idle. If they had been also watching the nozzle preasures as part of the scan it would have become obvious to them. Instead they kept slowing down and yet no one questioned why.
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It just blows my mind how that kind of mistake could be made. I guess when you have 4 engines losing one dosent have the same effect as if you only had 2 or even 1 right?? ha i doubt that!! Seriously, yet another example of how just having experience can count for little to nothing if your not keeping your head screwed on strait.
 
This animation is incredible. I love to watch the instruments as the approach continues. Notice at about 2:00, the #3 throttle is advanced for a moment, but then is retarded to idle right away. They almost had it figured out, but then didn't. Then when someone calls for flaps up, they actually raise them, which by that point, probably did more harm than good. Isn't it true that by raising the flaps at that point would actually destroy lift? And you can watch the VVI and the AOA indicators when they do this and you notice the AOA rapidly increases and the AS bleeds off. Well, another man's mistake will be my lesson.
 
Gary said:
Pretty neat simulation. Thanks for sending it along. Guess it illustrates that a multi-engine plane just gets you to the crash site sooner.

I still would have thought that even a C-5 could maintain altitude on two engines. Was it the nearly full flaps that produced too much drag?

Gary
Click to expand...

It's called operating on the backside of the power curve. At slow airspeed and high AOA, you don't have enough power available to arrest the sink rate. They were so slow that raising the flaps brought on a stall. Maybe if they milked them up very slowly while increasing speed, they could have saved it but they shouldn't have been using more than half flaps at most to begin with. Everyone aboard is lucky to be around to talk about it.
 
Why are they so many voices on there? Don't they have a sterile cockpit?

Is that recording all of the intercom traffic, where the pilot and co-pilot don't hear them talking in back?
 
Witmo said:
It's called operating on the backside of the power curve. At slow airspeed and high AOA, you don't have enough power available to arrest the sink rate. They were so slow that raising the flaps brought on a stall. Maybe if they milked them up very slowly while increasing speed, they could have saved it but they shouldn't have been using more than half flaps at most to begin with. Everyone aboard is lucky to be around to talk about it.
Click to expand...

OK, that makes it a bit clearer,thanks!

Gary
 
Adam - I found an article about Col John Lowery at www.goldengatewing.org "Prop Talk" dated June 27th 2002. He was a guest speaker for their organization and talked about flying in Korea. Do you have any contact information for him?
 
mikea said:
Why are they so many voices on there?
Click to expand...
Because there are a lot of people on the flight deck of a C-5.

Don't they have a sterile cockpit?
Click to expand...
Yes, but all the conversation is directly related to the conduct of the flight.

Is that recording all of the intercom traffic, where the pilot and co-pilot don't hear them talking in back?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there were three pilots and a flight engineer on the flight deck, and you hear all four of them.
 
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