Buying an airplane that's been sitting

Jimmy cooper said:
Value is the buyers decision. This sounds like something a mortgage broker would have said in 2006, before the crash! ( as he zeroed in on a no doc buyer)this airplane is old, full of questionable wood , hoses, tires, engine, etc. put a fork in it, it's done! Buyers make grave errors every day.
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I believe that is your personal view not fact.
 
jesse said:
Assuming that it has been kept dry I can't imagine that would be an issue as a result of the plane not flying. Granted there could still be a structural issue but doubt being idle for 6 years would be the cause.
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Keeping it dry is not the only required care of a wooden structure, the varnish must be kept intact by renewing as required.
 
So after talking to several people who have owned, bought, and sold these airplanes. This is what's I've found:

The "pre Viking" is not as popular or valuable as the Vikings & super Vikings.

In today's market (based on private non-broker sales in the last 6 months they appear to sell from $26k-36k. Though the ones at 36k don't appear to be going anywhere and the owners are insulted when I've pointed out recent sales below 30k.

The value is in the idea that you can own a complex airplane cruising near 200mph on economical fuel burn, and being docile and fun to fly.

When it's all said and done, I will put my faith in the guys who will do my pre-buy. If the cylinders look good and hydraulics operate and the airframe checks out.... I am willing to roll the dice on the remainder hoses/seals etc. although I would prefer to find one that is currently flying for $27-28k
And to clarify I mean roll the dice on the odds I may have to replace a fair share before flying the airplane for long
 
Tom-D said:
Keeping it dry is not the only required care of a wooden structure, the varnish must be kept intact by renewing as required.
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And that just goes to hell in six years in a hangar? Without exposure to moisture or UV rays? I don't buy that (own a 46 year old wooden airplane) that hasn't had varnish reapplied likely ever and the wood looks new.
 
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Jeff07W said:
So after talking to several people who have owned, bought, and sold these airplanes. This is what's I've found:

The "pre Viking" is not as popular or valuable as the Vikings & super Vikings.

In today's market (based on private non-broker sales in the last 6 months they appear to sell from $26k-36k. Though the ones at 36k don't appear to be going anywhere and the owners are insulted when I've pointed out recent sales below 30k.

The value is in the idea that you can own a complex airplane cruising near 200mph on economical fuel burn, and being docile and fun to fly.

When it's all said and done, I will put my faith in the guys who will do my pre-buy. If the cylinders look good and hydraulics operate and the airframe checks out.... I am willing to roll the dice on the remainder hoses/seals etc. although I would prefer to find one that is currently flying for $27-28k
And to clarify I mean roll the dice on the odds I may have to replace a fair share before flying the airplane for long
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someone is really yanking your chain is they use the words viking and economical fuel burn. The Viking is one of the biggest pigs available, especially considering its cabin space. Most airplanes are a compromise, for example a lance is roomy but slow. The viking does not compromise, it manages to be cramped yet slow.

See the comanche 250 for something that is roomy and as fast as a viking on 50 less horsepower.
 
See the comanche 250 for something that is roomy and as fast as a viking on 50 less horsepower.[/QUOTE]

I like the Comanche but It's out of my price range
 
JHW said:
See the comanche 250 for something that is roomy and as fast as a viking on 50 less horsepower.
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The comanches are a great old aircraft, but like all old aircraft they are getting to need more and more maintenance every year. Buy a cheap one, break out the wallet you'll pay sooner or later.
 
Jeff07W said:
I like the Comanche but It's out of my price range
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not really. If you want a reasonably fast retract, the comanche is about as cheap as it gets. If you can't afford a comanche then you can't afford the care of any complex plane. There are no bargains. You will pay in one way or another.
 
Jeff07W said:
I like the Comanche but It's out of my price range
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Not trying to be a jerk or wreck your dreams, but do you understand that the acquisition is the cheap part of aircraft ownership?

If your acquisition budget is so tight, are you really going to be able to afford to maintain this airplane?

TAP, Controller, Barnstormers...etc are full of ads for planes that people bought because they were cheap, but they can't afford to keep flying them.
 
The same mentality pervades all levels of aviation. For example, many people have found themselves in red ink after spending a fortune on a turboprop which is "supposed to be" cheaper than a king air. As my former pupil wrote above, there are no bargains. Apparently he was not asleep all the time I was speaking.
 
A Comanche 250 won't cost much different from a Viking when all is said and done.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not trying to be a jerk or wreck your dreams, but do you understand that the acquisition is the cheap part of aircraft ownership?
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Just for an idea for the original poster, I'm looking at buying an Arrow for about $40,000. I've gotten quotes on insurance, hangar space, and annual inspection costs and its pretty close to $7000/year before the engine ever turns over once and assuming nothing major is found at the inspection. So in less than 6 years, just the recurring costs are going to be more than the purchase price.. :yikes:
 
jesse said:
And that just goes to hell in six years in a hangar? Without exposure to moisture or UV rays? I don't buy that (own a 46 year old wooden airplane) that hasn't had varnish reapplied likely ever and the wood looks new.
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We don't know the life history of this aircraft or how it has been treated. If I were buying I certainly would want to know how well that structure has survived. because if it hasn't that is the most expensive item in the whole aircraft to repair or replace.

If it is in good condition move on.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
A Comanche 250 won't cost much different from a Viking when all is said and done.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that he would do better financially with Ed's Comanche than a Viking that has been sitting for 6 years because the annual hasn't been signed off.
 
Tom-D said:
We don't know the life history of this aircraft or how it has been treated. If I were buying I certainly would want to know how well that structure has survived. because if it hasn't that is the most expensive item in the whole aircraft to repair or replace.

If it is in good condition move on.
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I certainly agree with you. I was trying to understand why the airplane sitting for 6 or 7 years would have damaged the wood if it were in the hangar. Basically it having set means nothing when it comes to the condition of the wood. Flying or not you need to inspect it. Sitting in a hangar where it is dry and not exposed to constant UV rays would be good for the wood.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that he would do better financially with Ed's Comanche than a Viking that has been sitting for 6 years because the annual hasn't been signed off.
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I'd agree with that.
 
jesse said:
I certainly agree with you. I was trying to understand why the airplane sitting for 6 or 7 years would have damaged the wood if it were in the hangar. Basically it having set means nothing when it comes to the condition of the wood. Flying or not you need to inspect it. Sitting in a hangar where it is dry and not exposed to constant UV rays would be good for the wood.
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And dry rot occurs where?
 
We'll I have to say that if I had more money I would indeed purchase something different. The Viking seems a remarkable value for the money-- if and only if it checks out. If I could keep the price tag under $30k and have an airworthy cross country machine I will be happy. I already have a hanger so it will be out with old and in with the new. I've never owned a complex so I'm figuring on 50% more expensive maint cost than I pay on my current tricycle. And insurance is not a problem. If I can hit the numbers right I'll be happy. Looking over the logs it appears that quite a bit of money was put in The airplane from 2002-2006 I'm excite for now. If it doesn't check out than ill walk and keep looking. I have to say that people told me I was cray to buy an old worn out cherokee as a student pilot and that bird has been amazing I could walk away from it now and get nothing for it and be money ahead of renting so I'm cautiously optimistic about an old complex bird, but we shall see
 
Take all the trips you've down in the Cherokee(real ones, not the fantasy ones you'd do if only you had a faster plane) and refigure the times with Viking speeds. If it only saves you 15-20 minutess , learn to drink your coffee faster or get more efficient at preflighting. And keep your Cherokee. Your ego is writing checks your bank is going to have to cash.:rofl: It would suck going from having a flying plane to a project money pit.
 
Jeff, I am not a mechanic, but I have owned several airplanes and I will share something with you that others have tried to tell you. There are NO BARGAINS in aviation, no steals, no hidden gems for first time buyers.
Trying to buy a complex retractable on a shoestring budget is going to either ruin you financially or at least get you out of aviation.
Have you ever seen the movie, "The Money Pit"? if not rent it, subsitute a bargain airplane for the house, use the same basic story line.:mad2::mad2:
The aviation market adjusts to value, there is a reason a Baron sells for more than a 310, or a King Air brings more than an MU2, value.
I am not bashing the Viking, but you're expectation of putting a couple grand in a bird that hasn't flown in many years is far from realistic. Hoses, belts, mouse poop, prop overhaul or at least reseal, no telling what the ancient avionics are going to do after a couple uses.
You could easily spend $10-20K on an airplane like this and still have a $20K airplane. :no:
But, that is just friendly advice from a guy trying to help you. :D
Please notice, that not one person here said to hurry and grab it before someone else beats you to it. :idea:

Jeff07W said:
We'll I have to say that if I had more money I would indeed purchase something different. The Viking seems a remarkable value for the money-- if and only if it checks out. If I could keep the price tag under $30k and have an airworthy cross country machine I will be happy. I already have a hanger so it will be out with old and in with the new. I've never owned a complex so I'm figuring on 50% more expensive maint cost than I pay on my current tricycle. And insurance is not a problem. If I can hit the numbers right I'll be happy. Looking over the logs it appears that quite a bit of money was put in The airplane from 2002-2006 I'm excite for now. If it doesn't check out than ill walk and keep looking. I have to say that people told me I was cray to buy an old worn out cherokee as a student pilot and that bird has been amazing I could walk away from it now and get nothing for it and be money ahead of renting so I'm cautiously optimistic about an old complex bird, but we shall see
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Jeff07W said:
I appreciate everyone's insight
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You sound like you're going to buy it anyway, just make sure to check back in and let us know how you like it after a couple months. ;)
Everyone on here has a favorite single engine airplane, mine is a 182, a couple guys are Mooney fanatics, some people that love Bonanzas, Piper has a big fan base, even a Viking guy or two. But not one of them has suggested that this is a good idea, I don't think anyone even said it wasn't a bad idea. If you are torn between listening to your gut instinct and listening to dozens of folks that have seen the movie before, go with the guys that know the ending. ;)
 
Here's a 17-30 in Houston with an I0-520D for $32K. And like I say, asking ain't gettin'. :wink2:

https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=

.watermarked_e0fc97684fd41957a471bfa669bb7ea2.jpg


Super Viking's were popular in Texas when they first came out because they were fast, and fuel was relatively cheap. If I were going after one, it would be a 1979 or later turbo charged, because I would want that for the speed and cross country. You almost have to be a Viking devotee' when you get one. Some owners love them.
 
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I'm only committing to go check it out with a couple mechanics who know these birds..... I would be content with my cherokee but I've been flying in & out of tahoe quite a bit and I need more power...
 
I almost bought a cherokee 235 last year-- but it sold before I could get to it
 
txflyer said:
Here's a 17-30 in Houston with an I0-520D for $32K. And like I say, asking ain't gettin'. :wink2:

https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=

.watermarked_e0fc97684fd41957a471bfa669bb7ea2.jpg


Super Viking's were popular in Texas when they first came out because they were fast, and fuel was relatively cheap. If I were going after one, it would be a turbo charged, because I would want that for the speed and cross country. You almost have to be a Viking devotee' when you get one. Some owners love them.
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Link no worky.

Here's the real link :) https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_807331_Bellanca+17-30.html
 
Leonard Nimoy used to own a Super Viking. They must be good, right?
 
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