Bummer, first plane in my logbook to have gone down :(

That's too bad.

The one in the Hudson was the first in my logbook to go down (and in that case, never come back - they still haven't found it).
 
Is a bummer! Glad the pilot got away without a fatality. Northumberland airport can be a bit tricky. Tucked away in a fairly narrow valley, and decent hills (not mountains, a nod to our western folks) on both sides. Saturday was a bit breezy which makes the approach more difficult, need to stay on your toes with the updrafts and downdrafts coming off the hills.

Gary
 
At least three plane in my logbook are gone, including the ones I took my Private and IR checkrides in. Probably more if I checked the ones I only have a couple hours in. One was fatal to the owner and his wife. As you say a bummer.
 
HOLY CRAP! The pilot is a friend of mine. I can't beleive this. She is my Court Reporter ( Stenographer). I don't know how she is going to work with a broken arm. Don't get me wrong I am thanking G-d she survived. But this is surreal. I just got her started at KLOM on her IR. She just told me that she was suspending her IR training so she could just spend her money flying this summer.

I am just numb.
 
AdamZ said:
HOLY CRAP! The pilot is a friend of mine. I can't beleive this. She is my Court Reporter ( Stenographer). I don't know how she is going to work with a broken arm. Don't get me wrong I am thanking G-d she survived. But this is surreal. I just got her started at KLOM on her IR. She just told me that she was suspending her IR training so she could just spend her money flying this summer.

I am just numb.

Gonna have to get her back on the horse as soon as she's up to it!! Sounds like she had quite a ride.
 
The plane I soloed in crashed a while ago and the pilot and pax did not survive, the other plane I first learned to fly also crashed and was totaled without loss of life.
 
Does anyone have the historic Metars for Northumberland ( shamokin) PA for saturday?
 
smigaldi said:
The plane I soloed in crashed a while ago and the pilot and pax did not survive, the other plane I first learned to fly also crashed and was totaled without loss of life.

Three planes in my logbook have been wrecked (that I know of). Fortunately, none was serious to the people only to the airplane. I should look some of them up to see what's happened to them.

Judy
 
Every plane I've flown is still flying. Although one lives in OK, and one in CA now.
 
93304 (my checkride plane) was sold recently... kinda wish I had a chance to get it... nice little 152. Hopefully its new owner will get many more hours out of it.
 
One of the 152s I flew during primary training went out for a lesson one night and never came back. Scuttlebutt around the airport was that the instructor liked to go out over the ocean at night and do spins. He took a primary student with him on the last flight. The student was a young doctor. The guy's Porsche was still in the parking lot the next morning. Very sad indeed.
 
A few months ago I searched the NTSB accident database for N-numbers of airplanes in my logbook. I go back to the mid-sixties, so there were a lot of airplanes in my search, mostly trainers (as student and CFI) and rentals.

It was a little disheartening. A surprising number of them had been in some kind of accident, some very serious or catastrophic. Many of the trainers had hard-landing accidents, some more than one. A lovely Piper Warrior that I had once enjoyed renting was destroyed years later in an apparent suicide crash, and a Navion I once flew also went down under very suspicious circumstances. A Cessna 152 fell victim to a mixture of alcohol and fog, and a Saratoga and its pilot were lost to an overabundance of air in the fuel tanks. A Mooney 201 hit a house when a go-around somehow went bad.

My only accident (thankfully) was a landing rollover back in 1971, while receiving dual instruction in a McCulloch J-2 gyroplane. It was a little comfort that of the 60-some J-2's built, it was hard to find one that had not been in some sort of serious mishap.

Accident reports and the "Never Again" articles in AOPA Pilot are valuable and sobering lessons to us all. But it is all the more compelling when you realize you have sat in that very same seat.

-- Pilawt
 
What a shame. That's a blow that N10 doesn't need right now.

Adam, I'm glad your friend was able to walk away.
 
Ya, it is.

3 of the 4 T-34's that I've flown have gone down, along with the 152 I Solo'd in.

HPNFlyGirl said:
Its not a matter of IF but WHEN!!!!! Someone totalled my 172 trainer last year.
 
Ken Ibold said:
One of the 152s I flew during primary training went out for a lesson one night and never came back. Scuttlebutt around the airport was that the instructor liked to go out over the ocean at night and do spins. He took a primary student with him on the last flight. The student was a young doctor. The guy's Porsche was still in the parking lot the next morning. Very sad indeed.


OMG. If he knew that was the plan he shouldn't have gone! What a waste.
 
AdamZ said:
Does anyone have the historic Metars for Northumberland ( shamokin) PA for saturday?
Nearby Penn valley
KSEG 061153Z AUTO 29005KT 10SM OVC046 06/M01 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP141 70002
T00561011 10056 20050 51021
KSEG 061153Z AUTO 29005KT 10SM OVC046 06/M01 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP141 70002
T00561011 10056 20050 51021
Data are from http://vortex.plymouth.edu/sa_parse-u.html
 
mgkdrgn said:
Ya, it is.

3 of the 4 T-34's that I've flown have gone down, along with the 152 I Solo'd in.

Do you know the cause(s) of the T-34 crashes?
 
AdamZ said:
HOLY CRAP! The pilot is a friend of mine.
I am just numb.
This is the reason why we must all relentlessly keep closing the box of vulnerability, operationally reducing it to the absolute minimum we can. Aviation is an unforgiving mistress.

"Now what was V1 for this condition?"
 
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Joe Williams said:
Why can't anyone ever crash the junkers, darn it?

It just never works that way. Here at MSN, nice 172's go bye-bye pretty quick it seems.

I'm still sitting at three planes I've flown that have crashed later:

Skyhawk N105FS: CFI, 2 student pilots, iced up and stalled on approach at DBQ.

Archer N5360F: One private pilot, thought he could make it from Hamilton, NY to Madison, WI (604nm great circle) without refueling. (Hmm, 115 kts * 4.8 hours fuel = 552 nm under perfect conditions). Oh, and he had a headwind. And no GPS. And it was at night. He ditched in Lake Michigan, about 5nm shy of KMKE, and succumbed to hypothermia.

Skyhawk N6454J: Private pilot, 1 pax. Control lock not removed during preflight. Lost control on takeoff.

The cruel irony is that the while the two Skyhawks were destroyed, all five people aboard walked away with no/minor injuries; the Archer was not destroyed (and last I heard had been recovered and was in St. Louis somewhere) but the pilot was killed. :(
 
With all this destruction, no need to wonder at the cost of insurance, and hence of renting. My main PPL trainer was destroyed a couple years ago, as well as another 172 I had flown in training at the same small school.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Skyhawk N6454J: Private pilot, 1 pax. Control lock not removed during preflight. Lost control on takeoff.
Seriously, how the heck does this happen? Don't people move the yoke around anytime before the takeoff roll?
 
wangmyers said:
Seriously, how the heck does this happen? Don't people move the yoke around anytime before the takeoff roll?

Apparently not in this case.

I move all surfaces (except rudders on the planes that shouldn't have them moved on the ground) during preflight, and I box the controls at least once on the ground. Plus, if there's significant wind, the controls will be deflected while taxiing too.

I don't know if you read the report, but the red metal flag was missing from the control lock too. The FBO has gotten pretty sensitive about that - They just fabricated a new control lock and metal flag for our 182 so that it actually does cover the ignition key like it's supposed to. (Ours was bent so that it was still physically possible to put a key in below the flag.)
 
wangmyers said:
Seriously, how the heck does this happen? Don't people move the yoke around anytime before the takeoff roll?
A DC-3 took off, with external control locks installed, from a coastal northern California airstrip back in 1971. 17 aboard, no survivors.

-- Pilawt
 
The 172 I got my IR in crashed a few years back. A VFR pilot flew into IMC and hit a hill. Plane destroyed...pilot killed.
 
Uh hu ... well, at least 2 of the 3 for sure, and the 3rd is a "very good guess".

The first 2 are "famous" (infamous?). If you know anything about T-34's, you are very familiar with them.

Nav8tor said:
Do you know the cause(s) of the T-34 crashes?
 
Chas said:
With all this destruction, no need to wonder at the cost of insurance, and hence of renting. My main PPL trainer was destroyed a couple years ago, as well as another 172 I had flown in training at the same small school.

Compared to automobiles, it is akin to passing gas in a gale. But I don't see our insurance on a par with car insurance, and therefore, rental costs accordingly.

When you can rent a highway battleship for ~$100/DAY dry.....no comparison to an Arrow or Skyhawk at ~$100/HOUR.
 
F.W. Birdman said:
Compared to automobiles, it is akin to passing gas in a gale. But I don't see our insurance on a par with car insurance, and therefore, rental costs accordingly.

My airplane insurance is cheaper than my car insurance.
 
Glad that the pilot here crawled away and I hope she recovers quickly.

I haven't searched the database, but I know from the grapevine that at least two power planes and one glider in my log books have been totaled by stupid pilot tricks. One very serious set of injuries, two fatalities and three less airframes available to all of us.

Stay ahead of the plane at all times.

V7
 
I just got off the phone with my friend who was the pilot involved in this crash. She has pretty much admitted her mistakes to anyone who will listen and I am posting her version of the facts her not to lambast her but in the hope that others will learn and aviod similar mistakes. So to start forgive me for not posting this in Never Again but the thread was already started.

Pilot was flying a Cessna 150 from N10 ( Perkiomen Valley PA) to N79 (Shamokin , Northumberland PA) on a 63.7 nm XC. Flight was just for pleasure and practice.

Pilot reported that all went well with the Take off, enroute and approach phases of the VFR flight.

Pilot reports light winds of 6kts, 10sm vis and clear skys.

Pilot told me she crossed the numbers at N79 doing about 60kts. Which she said is standard for the 150. I have Never flown a 150 so I can't say but it seems fast to me based upon the Archer and Tiger numbers. She had full flaps in.

She told me that she started to pourpose so she put the nose down which usually works to stop the pourposing for her. Again unfamaliar with cessnas but I would not do that in the pipers or Tigers. She reported the pourpose got worse ( What I would expect from putting the nose down) and added some power but was concerned she could not put it down in the remaining runway. So she decided on a go around.

She applied full throttle and had barely any climb. She reports that she started to drift to the left ( high angle of attack and P Factor?)Although she says angle of attack was not that great. Drifting to the left she was headed for some trees.

She then related her near fatal mistake. ( or one of them) with full power full flaps and no climb very little airspeed and drifting to the left she paniced. She danced on the rudders. she said she has never been great with rudder skills and does not use them well. Simultaneoulsy she retracted ALL flaps at once and sunk. She believes her main gear clipped a tree and the plane litterally just stopped flying.

She said in about 3 seconds the plane nosed over straight down and her OH SHI^. She said she went straight down the plane hit nose first and flipped on its back and broke in three peices. Both doors popped open. She recalls being strapped in the seat upside down ( Seat belts save lives even in planes folks ( Nick that means buckle up). Her first thought was I have to get out the plane could blow up or catch fire. for some reason she tried to get out the pax door but couldn't.

Then she got out the pilot door and walked out. Yes walked out! She laid on the ground a few minutes and saw no one. There was no other traffic and the radio was quiet. When getting out of the plane she saw that the bone was sticking out of her right arm ( compound fracture).

She got up and went back to the plane to get her cell phone that was in her purse. For some reason her first call was to the FBO at Perk Valley and she told them what happened. The next was to her mom to tell her to take care of her dog ( go figure, I think she was in shock) the next to 911.

The FBO at Perk Valley tried to call the FBO at N79 but no one answered they finally called back about 2-3 hours later and said they had been there all day but didn't see anything HUH?:dunno: .

Kim has a compoud fracture of her right arm ( Broken in 2 places) a Few broken ribs on her left abdomen near her stomach. A few broken ribs in her right back. Broke her right thumb in two places and a broken orbital bone under one of her eyes. Not to mention lots of cuts and scrapes.

She made some serious mistakes which she recognized and freely admitted. When I spoke to her I couldn't brinng myself to scold her I was just happy she was alive. She said FAA said she was about 100' don't know if thats AGL or MSL.

She told me she is going to fly again but not before spending a lot of time with a CFI. Luckly she did have renters insurance.

I hope everyone learns something here. Sigh
 
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mgkdrgn said:
Uh hu ... well, at least 2 of the 3 for sure, and the 3rd is a "very good guess".

The first 2 are "famous" (infamous?). If you know anything about T-34's, you are very familiar with them.


...wing spars...
 
Adam, that's pretty much the version I'd gotten second hand from some other pilots, but didn't want to go round discussing 2nd hand hangar talk.

60 Kts works fine with two in the 152... I think 55 works better solo. Still, with full flaps hanging out even at 60 you'll slow down quickly. If you are fast, you just can't force the plane onto the runway, any more than you can any other. Just have to go around, or be patient and let it slow down.

Sounds like she responded badly to the porpoise (was it a porpoise, or was she bouncing off the mains, I wonder?), and things just got worse from there. The 152 will fly and climb with full flaps, especially when it's kinda cool and you are solo in the plane. But you've got to keep the nose down, get the speed up, and have room. It won't climb well... maybe 200 fpm. If you are lucky. As for pulling all the flaps... I did that once doing touch and goes in a 172 when I was still a student. Closest I've ever come to crashing. And I would have if I hadn't had lots of runway, and an instructor who knew how to fix things after letting me bounce off the runway a few times.

Dancing on the rudders in a 152 had to be interesting. The rudder in a 152 is LIGHT. Drove me bonkers, until I started basically using just my big toe on them.

It's a strong plane. I reckon Cessna knew they'd get crashed when they built a trainer. Glad she's more or less ok, and planning to get back in the air!!! A little work on go arounds, especially in low powered planes, should do the trick. You just aren't going to power yourself out of trouble in a 152.
 
Yep. Best 9 weeks of my life were the 9 one-week trips I made to SkyWarriors.

The 3rd is a T-34 that went down a few years ago on it's way back from Sun-N-Fun. Both occupants friends of mine ... one made it.

Nav8tor said:
...wing spars...
 
Two planes have bought it and all that remains is my logged time. One helicopter that I didn't get to log but flew also went to aluminum heaven.

Adam, wish your Court Reporter friend well in her recovery from all of us. Is she going back up after she heals? I hope so. "Back in the saddle" as someone else said.

Jim G
 
N2212R said:
My airplane insurance is cheaper than my car insurance.

Come to think of it, me too. My renter's insurance (with hull coverage enough for 2 cars) is cheaper than my auto insurance.
 
Well, number four just went down yesterday. Fortunately both the pilot and the tree he hit survived, but the plane bought the farm.

Arggh.

V7
 
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