Brain Shuts: Airport Security Can Kill?

[No Joy]

Brain Shunts: Airport Security Can Kill?

I've heard some allegations that metal detectors can kill someone with a magnetically controlled brain shunt, by changing the settings of the shunt. I have heard of security personnel getting irate because people with brain shunts have refused metal detector scans. I've searched the Internet and there is conflicting opinions whether a brain shunt would be affected by metal detectors. However I've seen a doctor note, that indicated that metal detectors can be dangerous to people with brain shunts.


The boy who could die by going too near his front gate
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-432092/The-boy-die-going-near-gate.html#ixzz2d5nuxGdD

Patients with programmable shunt valves must avoid magnetic forces such as metal detectors and MRI machines, as this can alter the pressure setting.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/541771_3

 

[poadeleted20]

If you have a Deep Brain Shunt (DBS), your doctor should already have warned you how to handle this. See:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...s/neurological/deep_brain_stimulation_135,38/
http://stanfordhospital.org/clinicsmedServices/COE/neuro/movementDisorders/deepBrainStimulation.html
...for details, but nothing there about lethal effects, just that "Deactivation of the neurostimulator would result in the patient experiencing the same symptoms for which they originally had the procedure (i.e., increased Parkinson’s movement.)"

And I'd believe the folks at the Stanford and JHU hospitals a lot sooner than I'd believe the Daily Mail.

 

[RJM62]

The typo in the thread title is both ironic and amusing. "Brain shuts" pretty well sums up a TSA screener's pre-shift preparations.

-Rich

 

[No Joy]

If you have a Deep Brain Shunt (DBS), your doctor should already have warned you how to handle this. See:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...s/neurological/deep_brain_stimulation_135,38/
http://stanfordhospital.org/clinicsmedServices/COE/neuro/movementDisorders/deepBrainStimulation.html
...for details, but nothing there about lethal effects, just that "Deactivation of the neurostimulator would result in the patient experiencing the same symptoms for which they originally had the procedure (i.e., increased Parkinson’s movement.)"

And I'd believe the folks at the Stanford and JHU hospitals a lot sooner than I'd believe the Daily Mail.

I was not referring to an electronic stimulator. I was referring to a shunt (drain) that equalizes pressure and allows fluid to drain from the brain.

I have a friend that has a brain shunt, he claims he could be dead in days if not hours if the shunt is blocked. He says it's unlikely, but possible that a metal detector could trip and shut off his shunt and that he might not know that the shunt is tripped or become symptomatic until in-flight. He says that if he became symptomatic in-flight, that there is a good chance he would be dead before he could get medical attention. He says any time is near a strong magnetic field, that he has to go to a hospital to have his shunt settings checked.


A blocked shunt can lead to brain damage or death.

The second images reflect the condition which occurred after the shunt became blocked, resulting in a brainstem herniation and death.

http://doctorstock.photoshelter.com/image/I0000ijvcqldRnJU

 

[No Joy]

The typo in the thread title is both ironic and amusing. "Brain shuts" pretty well sums up a TSA screener's pre-shift preparations.

-Rich

Ironic and amusing indeed. Typos corrected.

 

[weilke]

- the magnetic field in a MRI is typically 1.5Tesla, that is 30000 times the earths magnetic field and will re-set older pacemakers deep brain stimuiators, implanted medication pumps, and the pressure control valves on ventricular shunts. Magnetometers use a fraction of the magnetic field of a MRI and affect few modern implants.

- most patients with shunts have experienced failures or overdrainage events. They typically know how they feel when this happens and seek medical attention. Unless someone has a unusually high drainage volume, these events span days or hours. Yes, eventually you could die, but unless you are remote from civilization, any ER doc and neurosurgery physicians assistant will be able to triage and manage this.

- follow the directions from your medical implants manufacturer, you should have received those from your neurosurgeon along with the implant card that details what device you have. If you don't have that pamphlet, call the manufactuers 1-800 number and they will fedex it to you. Follow those directions, not the guidance of the daily mail.

 

[Clark1961]

He says any time is near a strong magnetic field, that he has to go to a hospital to have his shunt settings checked.

Sheesh, strong magnetic fields are pretty common in my world. I've had the magnetic strip on credit cards wiped by DC motors. It's sorta funny the first time.

I'm thinking electric cars and trucks might be a problem for the guy. Maybe not though if they are well shielded.

 

[denverpilot]

Sheesh, strong magnetic fields are pretty common in my world. I've had the magnetic strip on credit cards wiped by DC motors. It's sorta funny the first time.

I hate that. Mostly because the first time you realize it happened is driving home from the worksite at a gas station.

 

[Clark1961]

I hate that. Mostly because the first time you realize it happened is driving home from the worksite at a gas station.

That's pretty much how it went...at least the store was still open and the attendant ran the charge.

 

[douglas393]

Not true. Metal detectors do not generate a strong enough magnetic field and should not reprogram a programmable shunt. Two main manufacturers of programmable shunt: Codman(Hakim), and Medtronic(Stata). Codman's site sucks, but quote below is from Medtronic's site.

Devices known to contain magnets should be kept away from the immediate valve implant location, as they may have an effect on the performance level setting of the Strata-type valve. All magnets have an exponentially decreasing effect on the valve the further away they are located. Common environmental levels of electromagnetic (radio frequency) radiation generated by security scanners, metal detectors, microwave ovens, mobile telephones, high voltage lines, and transformers should not affect the performance level settings.

That being said, anytime someone with a programmable shunt is concerned that the shunt was reprogrammed they need to call their neurosurgeon, or go to a local emergency room immediately. The setting can be determined by a skull X-ray. All patients with programmable shunts should have a skull X-ray after reprogramming, and should have this readily available at all times.

Uncontrolled reprogramming by a magnetic source(typically an MRI, but other sources exist) can result in a overdrainage or underdrainage scenario. This will not be immediately fatal, but some shunt dependent people(typically obstructive hydrocephalus) can develop symptoms quickly. Therefore, if not sure see you neurosurgeon.

 

[Doggtyred]

I have a friend that has a brain shunt, he claims he could be dead in days if not hours if the shunt is blocked. He says it's unlikely, but possible that a metal detector could trip and shut off his shunt and that he might not know that the shunt is tripped or become symptomatic until in-flight. He says that if he became symptomatic in-flight, that there is a good chance he would be dead before he could get medical attention. He says any time is near a strong magnetic field, that he has to go to a hospital to have his shunt settings checked.


A blocked shunt can lead to brain damage or death.

He's being overdramatic and exaggerating.

YES.. a Codman or other mechanically programmable shunt can be manipulated by a magnetic field. As a matter of fact they use magnets to program it.

YES a programmable shunt's valve assembly can be changed by entering a strong field, and adjusted in EITHER direction.... too much or too little drainage.

I work in a facility that ROUTINELY performs MRI's on patients with magnetically programmable shunts. We shoot an xray before and after the MRI to evaluate the adjustment of the shunt, and neurosurgery makes adjustments with an external magnet IF needed.

IF your friend has a shunt and knows the symptoms of increased pressure/hydrocephalus he would know that the first symptoms would be headache, visual changes and other nonspecific but abnormal symptoms. He's not going to drop dead suddenly, or even in minutes... Hours to days for severe symptoms to develop.

As for metal detectors, Medtronic, the maker of one magnetically programmable shunt says "Common environmental levels of electromagnetic (radio frequency) radiation generated by security scanners, metal detectors, microwave ovens, mobile telephones, high voltage lines, and transformers should not affect the performance level settings."

The Codman brand, by Johnson and Johnson, is resistant to being manipulated by a 3 Tesla magnetic field MRI machine, which is many times more powerful than any metal detector.

Sorry.. but.. I think your friend is shoveling some blowing snow..

 

[weilke]

Sorry.. but.. I think your friend is shoveling some blowing snow..

And so do the folks in the welfare apartment featured in the the original daily mail article. They want a different apartment, the kid is just a tool to get that done.

 

[douglas393]

He's being overdramatic and exaggerating.

YES.. a Codman or other mechanically programmable shunt can be manipulated by a magnetic field. As a matter of fact they use magnets to program it.

YES a programmable shunt's valve assembly can be changed by entering a strong field, and adjusted in EITHER direction.... too much or too little drainage.

I work in a facility that ROUTINELY performs MRI's on patients with magnetically programmable shunts. We shoot an xray before and after the MRI to evaluate the adjustment of the shunt, and neurosurgery makes adjustments with an external magnet IF needed.

IF your friend has a shunt and knows the symptoms of increased pressure/hydrocephalus he would know that the first symptoms would be headache, visual changes and other nonspecific but abnormal symptoms. He's not going to drop dead suddenly, or even in minutes... Hours to days for severe symptoms to develop.

As for metal detectors, Medtronic, the maker of one magnetically programmable shunt says "Common environmental levels of electromagnetic (radio frequency) radiation generated by security scanners, metal detectors, microwave ovens, mobile telephones, high voltage lines, and transformers should not affect the performance level settings." ..

Guess you missed my previous post immediately before yours.:wink2:

The Codman brand, by Johnson and Johnson, is resistant to being manipulated by a 3 Tesla magnetic field MRI machine, which is many times more powerful than any metal detector. ..

NOT TRUE AT ALL. I would not trust any programmable shunt not to be reprogrammed by an MRI. PM if you want to know how I know this. Also, the magnet in the shunt programmer is not nearly as strong as that in an MRI, but is able to program it because of proximity. Any household magnet including the ones on your refrigerator has the potential to reprogram a shunt that is programmable. It is not a function only of strength but of proximity. The magnets a dentist uses to clip the bib on you has reprogrammed many a shunt. Again PM me if you want to know how I know. So again, I will repeat myself. No matter what programmable shunt you have if you come in close contact with a magnet(ie near the shunt valve) or have an MRI you need to have it rechecked. If you have a programmable shunt you should ALWAYS have you latest skull X-ray which clearly shows the programming, and what type of shunt you have readily available just in case. If you have any type of shunt for hydrocephalus you should have a copy of your latest CT scan or MRI available as well.

Sorry.. but.. I think your friend is shoveling some blowing snow..

True probably.

 

[weilke]

If you have a programmable shunt you should ALWAYS have you latest skull X-ray which clearly shows the programming, and what type of shunt you have readily available just in case. If you have any type of shunt for hydrocephalus you should have a copy of your latest CT scan or MRI available as well.

Get the CDs with the studies. Copy the entire content of the CD (including the viewer) over onto a thumb-drive. Keep the thumb-drive together with your implant card on your person at all times.

 

[douglas393]

Get the CDs with the studies. Copy the entire content of the CD (including the viewer) over onto a thumb-drive. Keep the thumb-drive together with your implant card on your person at all times.

CD's, thumb drives, or films are good. The only problem with CD's and thumb drives is that many hospital have IT departments which are so worried about the security of their networks, that the have disabled all of the CD drives, and USB ports in the computers so you cannot access them. The important thing which is what you are pointing out is that reports and cards are not sufficient(unfortunately not all radiologist read the pressure setting, and in the case of ventricular size a picture is worth a million words), the actual studies are most important.

 

[weilke]

CD's, thumb drives, or films are good. The only problem with CD's and thumb drives is that many hospital have IT departments which are so worried about the security of their networks, that the have disabled all of the CD drives, and USB ports in the computers so you cannot access them.

Every hospital I have worked for had one 'promiscuous' PC in the radiology file room to load outside studies. At times, that box is not connected to the hospital network.
The suggestion for the thumb-drive is because you can keep that on your key-chain, not everyone is able to carry around a 14x17in folder day in day out.

 

[douglas393]

Every hospital I have worked for had one 'promiscuous' PC in the radiology file room to load outside studies. At times, that box is not connected to the hospital network.
The suggestion for the thumb-drive is because you can keep that on your key-chain, not everyone is able to carry around a 14x17in folder day in day out.

Did not disagree with you that the CD, thumb drive is a good idea. In fact, probably over 99% of films today are on CD. Just was pointing out that it is not fool proof. I agree most hospitals do have a cpmputer, but not all, and you would be amazed at how often no one but the radiologist know which computer it is or how to log onto it. Many radiology departments now use nite rad services and the radiologist is not even available. So sometimes that computer is not available, which is why I always have a laptop with me, but that is another story. Furthermore, some of those boxes are running ancient versions of windows, or the CD is not compatible, or have been corrupted. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that medical things tend to crap out at the most inopportune times.

 

[Doggtyred]

Originally Posted by Doggtyred
The Codman brand, by Johnson and Johnson, is resistant to being manipulated by a 3 Tesla magnetic field MRI machine, which is many times more powerful than any metal detector. ..

NOT TRUE AT ALL. I would not trust any programmable shunt not to be reprogrammed by an MRI. PM if you want to know how I know this.

I took my quote from the Codman website. I'm sure you may have anecdotal experience to the contrary. That being said the MRI department at my hospital gets a skull film before and after every MRI on a programmable shunt. Just because it SHOULD be resistant doesn't guarantee it isn't.

But I stand by my comment that the field on a 3T MRI is stronger than a metal detector. One Gauss equals 1×10−4 tesla (100 μT). Walk-through metal detectors have magnetic field strengths measured up to 3,741 mG and hand-held metal detectors up to 76 mG.

So.. 370 uT in a walk through device.. compared to 3T inside the tube of an MRI. The five gauss line/perimeter in our machines is at the door to the scanner.

 

[Natalie]

This is a bit of a delayed response, but it's come about in my quest to find a solution for airport security metal detectors. I was fitted with a Medtronic Strata LP Shunt almost 3 months ago. The Medtronic site does state that metal detectors will not affect the shunt setting. I went into a store last week that happened to have a metal detector at the entrance and about 24 hours later I had the usual low pressure symptoms. Headache, nausea, dizziness. Went back to my neuro and the shunt was not on a particular setting, it was jumping all over the place. I definitely think now that airport security detectors will be strong enough to offset my shunt again.. Which is terrifying because I may have to travel to remote areas where I can't find a neuro on every corner to reset it again..

 

[Pat]

Still confused. I had a Codman Certas Plus implanted on 3/17/17 with initial setting of 5. Can I go thru airport security or the detectors going onboard or coming off a cruise ship without risking a change in the Codman setting. Mfgr says the Codman has a tolerance of up to 80 gauss.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

This is a bit of a delayed response, but it's come about in my quest to find a solution for airport security metal detectors. I was fitted with a Medtronic Strata LP Shunt almost 3 months ago. The Medtronic site does state that metal detectors will not affect the shunt setting. I went into a store last week that happened to have a metal detector at the entrance and about 24 hours later I had the usual low pressure symptoms. Headache, nausea, dizziness. Went back to my neuro and the shunt was not on a particular setting, it was jumping all over the place. I definitely think now that airport security detectors will be strong enough to offset my shunt again.. Which is terrifying because I may have to travel to remote areas where I can't find a neuro on every corner to reset it again..

Just curious. RFID reader at the store or metal detector?

I can't recall ever seeing a retail store that had a metal detector at the entrance.

 

[murphey]

Still confused. I had a Codman Certas Plus implanted on 3/17/17 with initial setting of 5. Can I go thru airport security or the detectors going onboard or coming off a cruise ship without risking a change in the Codman setting. Mfgr says the Codman has a tolerance of up to 80 gauss.

This is not exactly the best place to ask about life-threatening issues.Have you checked with the doctor?

 

[murphey]

Just curious. RFID reader at the store or metal detector?

I can't recall ever seeing a retail store that had a metal detector at the entrance.

There are far too many places in the US. Pretty much every grocery store has a sensor system. Far too many K-12 schools have metal detectors. Those are the blantant obvious ones. Next time you're near a jewelry store, see if you can spot the unobvious detectors.And the motion detectors, too.