Boeing Dreamliner in Kansas

The sad thing was that Evergreen didn't do anything to lose the contract. It was switched to Atlas because the delay in the 747-8 program. Instead of a monetary payment, Boeing gave them the contract.

TangoWhiskey said:
Best post, on Facebook, from Rob Finfrock on this event: "I would also imagine there are a few unemployed, former Evergreen pilots laughing through their tears right now."

(Evergreen lost the Dreamliner contract to Atlas, after flying it for some time).
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jonnyjetprop said:
It's all integrated into a single nav display.
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I'm not that familiar with the new stuff on the big planes, but of the ones I have seen, they just chart out the approach on a black background, no 'map' as we are accustomed to in GA.
 
overdrive148 said:
Room to spare from what it looks like. Still tired of the media blowing everything out of proportion and reporting the 9200 ft takeoff roll required at mtow instead of the aircraft probably having a load of nothing and minimal fuel...
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Responsible, informative reporting doesn't pull ratings though.
 
if only the pilots had been slaves to automation.

from what i hear there was a major crowd at Jabara today to watch the takeoff. That thing takes off several times a month from McConnell with no fanfare. I saw it go over me once on my drive home when we lived on the east side. cool airplane.
 
Henning said:
How many of the 'big guys' use moving map GPS?
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My point was that if a GA pilot with a 430 or G1000 can show their location in relation to their destination and other airports, thus giving huge amounts of situational awareness, it's shocking that their huge, expensive commercial aircraft wouldn't provide the same level of situational awareness or that it would be that easy to mistake where they were and also have so much trouble figuring out their true location.
 
tehmightypirate said:
My point was that if a GA pilot with a 430 or G1000 can show their location in relation to their destination and other airports, thus giving huge amounts of situational awareness, it's shocking that their huge, expensive commercial aircraft wouldn't provide the same level of situational awareness or that it would be that easy to mistake where they were and also have so much trouble figuring out their true location.
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I have long been amazed at how little information that airline pilots have at their disposal considering the current state of technology.
 
Henning said:
I have long been amazed at how little information that airline pilots have at their disposal considering the current state of technology.
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My girlfriend's father is an MD88 captain. He says that there is no GPS in his plane. He primarily relies on VOR/DME to navigate en-route. He seemed surprised when I mentioned that the C172 I rent has an IFR GPS in the panel.
 
Henning said:
I'm not that familiar with the new stuff on the big planes, but of the ones I have seen, they just chart out the approach on a black background, no 'map' as we are accustomed to in GA.
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True, but the question is why the little airplane symbol wasn't on the airport symbol?

To answer my own question, it could have been that the map was at too large of a range setting to notice or they abandoned the map display all together.

A G1000 kicks butt over what I have in a B747-400. No XM weather either.
 
MassPilot said:
My girlfriend's father is an MD88 captain. He says that there is no GPS in his plane. He primarily relies on VOR/DME to navigate en-route. He seemed surprised when I mentioned that the C172 I rent has an IFR GPS in the panel.
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I took an old American Airlines 777 captain for a ride in a G-1000SVT 182, he about crapped his pants when the display lit up, "WTF is that!?! Why don't I have that?"
 
Henning said:
How many of the 'big guys' use moving map GPS?
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How about basic radio navigation?? I suspect had they had an approach chart out for the runway they were headed to, their error would have been obvious.
 
LDJones said:
How about basic radio navigation?? I suspect had they had an approach chart out for the runway they were headed to, their error would have been obvious.
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If they had a sectional I would say yes, but an approach chart by itself would not have eliminated the confusion as it only depicts one runway in a blank environment. Had the followed the approach procedure, now that would have prevented the problem. I often do that VFR into unfamiliar destinations.
 
LDJones said:
How about basic radio navigation?? I suspect had they had an approach chart out for the runway they were headed to, their error would have been obvious.
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At the start of the approach he said they were doing the RNAV/GPS approach so I'm guessing they were just flying the fixes which unintentionally lined them up with the wrong runway and they saw it first and did a visual into the wrong airport.

With all the media attention this is getting I imagine we'll have our answer soon enough. Hopefully they don't try to make some dumb new rule over this. In mind mind it was an honest mistake and no harm, no foul.
 
It happens every couple of years where we get a high profile one of these, never had a new rule come out of it before.
 
I'm think AAO has PCL. I wonder if he was on a long final, someone turned on the rwy lights and the crew got caught fixating on the wrong airport.
 
Matthew said:
I'm think AAO has PCL. I wonder if he was on a long final, someone turned on the rwy lights and the crew got caught fixating on the wrong airport.
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Well, we know it wasn't the guys flying Giant 4241...they had to ask for the CTAF.

I cracked up when they told McConnell someone was standing outside the aircraft and had informed them where they were.

"Can I help you guys?"

:rofl: :rofl:
 
3393RP said:
I cracked up when they told McConnell someone was standing outside the aircraft and had informed them where they were.

"Can I help you guys?"

:rofl: :rofl:
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I was told that if I ever land at an airport and dont know which one it is, to buy fuel and find out the name of the town from the receipt :) .
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Probably were flying visually; but they had a good visual clue, as you have to overfly all the city lights (the area depicted in yellow is the shape of the city lights at night) before you get to McConnell... they landed at Jabara, which is BEFORE the city lights. Stupid mistake.
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Yeah, but only if you have a sectional. None o' these guys seem to carry them...

TangoWhiskey said:
The audio is chilling, when they hear a twin turboprop go around over them!! So much for "deer on the runway, go around!"
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That's a big frickin' deer!!! :eek:

frfly172 said:
Would be worth the price of admission to watch that take off. Do you think the same crew will do the repositioning?
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Nope. Crew got flown in from New York to do it according to one article. The other guys are busy calculating the takeoff performance of the new desk they're flying.

NoHeat said:
I wonder why chart makers don't draw the runways of other airports on an approach chart, if they can so easily be confused with the intended runway.
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Sometimes, they do: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1312/05240IL24.PDF I'm not sure if that was added before or after a Northwest Airlink commuter landed at Bellefonte a few years ago.
 
Henning said:
I took an old American Airlines 777 captain for a ride in a G-1000SVT 182, he about crapped his pants when the display lit up, "WTF is that!?! Why don't I have that?"
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ME TOO! Except my AA 777 Captain friend isn't THAT old... but he is retired. We took a G1000 T182T to OSH... he loved it, said my cockpit was better than his.
 
Here's a weird thought: This wouldn't have happened to an Asiana crew. they would have let the plane fly the right approach automatically, rather than taking over and landing manually when they saw what they thought was the runway....

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Here's a weird thought: This wouldn't have happened to an Asiana crew. they would have let the plane fly the right approach automatically, rather than taking over and landing manually when they saw what they thought was the runway....
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Hmmm, the Asiana crew landed short and so did the Atlas crew - the difference is just a matter of degree.
 
Speaking of Asiana - I wonder if we'll ID the pilots in this episode?

Maybe:
Captain Ron Weigh
First Officer Hugh Landere?
 
I can understand mistaking the view out the window on landing(been there), but do the pilots not have Google maps on their phones. The "standard" map view clearly shows all three airports and names, yet ATC and crew spent 5 minutes trying to figure out where they were. Then working the performance numbers, like they can just back taxi and depart. Glad all ended well.
 
RV10flyer said:
I can understand mistaking the view out the window on landing(been there), but do the pilots not have Google maps on their phones. The "standard" map view clearly shows all three airports and names, yet ATC and crew spent 5 minutes trying to figure out where they were. Then working the performance numbers, like they can just back taxi and depart. Glad all ended well.
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Good point, 1 minute with my cell and I could have pulled up Avare or google maps and figured out where I was, with or without a "fancy" cockpit.
 
When did Sum Ting Wong start flying the Dreamlifter??
 
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