Blakely on User Fees

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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In her speech yesterday (as printed in full on aero-news.net, and I encourage you all to read it in full), the proposed user fee structure seems reasonable. Only turbine passenger-carrying commercial flights will pay outright "fees"; general aviation will not pay fees for FSS briefings or landings (except at large hubs)--we will continue to pay our "share" through fuel taxes, as we've been doing. Here's a relevant portion:

Marion Blakely said:
The general aviation (GA) community and piston commercial operations would contribute their allocated share of air traffic control costs primarily via a fuel tax. We have considered stakeholder feedback from this community and accept the argument that the efficiency and simplicity of the fuel tax mechanism merit its continued use as the primary mechanism for GA's contribution to FAA funding. We identified the costs associated with these users and then set the fuel tax rates to recover those costs. We anticipate that just over 10 percent of the ATO's budget would come from these taxes, which would continue to be deposited in the Trust Fund and be subject to appropriation. The bill proposes periodically recalibrating the portion of the GA fuel tax dedicated to funding ATO based on updates to FAA's cost allocation study.

In addition to the fuel tax, GA and piston commercial flights may be subject to a terminal user fee when they arrive or depart at one of a limited number of large hub airports. In general, these airports are the most congested terminal facilities in the aviation system, and all users at congested facilities contribute to congestion for other users. Given that large hub airports are in metropolitan areas that have alternative airports, which would not be subject to this fee, we believe it is appropriate to apply fees to all users of the most congested airports.
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Now the question is, how much will gas prices go up?
 
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Look for piston twin values to jump. Hmmmm, if only I have a few extra thousand to buy some right now.
 
I have seen estimates of the gas tax increasing by a $1/gal. That means for most piston singles you cost to operate is going up 8 to 15 dollars per hour with no improvement in services
 
You ever heard the phrase "Camel's nose in the tent?" Guvmint and utilities always work that way. "This fee is NOT for you. How could you think so?" until a few years later ..."among other proposed fees changes are...."
 
it seems like one of the concerns that I've read was that once somebody starts paying user fees, eventually GA will get them as well...
 
She says that just over 10 percent of funds will come from the GA avgas taxes. Anybody know what our current contribution is?
 
infotango said:
She says that just over 10 percent of funds will come from the GA avgas taxes. Anybody know what our current contribution is?
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I'm not sure, but look at their balance sheet and year-over-year figures for the Aviation Trust Fund... the trust fund is over $16B and growing every year.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/pdfs/INTROD_1.PDF

Shouldn't they be spending more of that on GA airport improvements?? They're already making a profit (and a healthy one at that!) on the Fund!
 
How do they determine a "congested airport"? One could argue KGVL is congested with all the training flights that come up there for T-n-G's or approaches.

The whole thing wreaks of inflation and heavy tax burdens in the costs of flying but absolutely no benefit.
 
smigaldi said:
Maybe we can get these for the Glidathon and other events???
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That's not too far out of line. At a FAAST sponsored seminar, they joked about the change in slogans.

Of course, the old one is "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help."

The new one: "We're the new FAA Safety Team. We've upped our standards so up yours."
 
KennyFlys said:
How do they determine a "congested airport"? One could argue KGVL is congested with all the training flights that come up there for T-n-G's or approaches.

The whole thing wreaks of inflation and heavy tax burdens in the costs of flying but absolutely no benefit.
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what do you mean no benefit.... there are plenty of benefits... err... wait, those are all benefits for the airlines... nevermind... :D
 
And there's no cap - fees will be adjusted upward as the budget increases. And that budget will be driven largely by the air carriers. IOW, we will really have no say.

BOHICA.
 
According to the table that Troy posted, Gasoline and non gasoline (Jet-A) constituted just under 10 percent of the FAA's gross excise-tax receipts in FY 2000. Apparently the Airports and Airways trust fund has been actually growing since 2003.
Interesting set of tables.
I don't have a problem with congested airport charges, provided such charges are strictly limited to a select collection of Bravo airports. It's not like any of us are going to have any luck landing at LGA anyways.
 
mikea said:
You ever heard the phrase "Camel's nose in the tent?" Guvmint and utilities always work that way. "This fee is NOT for you. How could you think so?" until a few years later ..."among other proposed fees changes are...."
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Mike! You been readin my mail or somethin <g>

Best,

Dave
 
Troy Whistman said:
I'm not sure, but look at their balance sheet and year-over-year figures for the Aviation Trust Fund... the trust fund is over $16B and growing every year.
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Silly question: is that money really in a trust fund, or, is it like the Social Security Trust Fund <shoulder shrug>?

Best,

Dave
 
FAA Admin said:
Given that large hub airports are in metropolitan areas that have alternative airports, which would not be subject to this fee, we believe it is appropriate to apply fees to all users of the most congested airports.
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... "alternative airports," which are disappearing at an alarming rate ... :mad:

-- Pilawt
 
Blakely has been invited to the Mississippi Airport Association conference in May. This issue will be on the agenda if she chooses to attend. She ought to, she's a Tupelo native, just like the King.

Small airports get less in the FAA reauthorization bill, a lot less. Gas taxes will go up with no additional services provided to GA.

Apparently the FAA administration sees no public benefit from GA.

I see little public benefit from squeezing GA out of the national airspace and curtailing funding of public landing facilities. Not everyone in the air is in aisle seating.
 
Troy Whistman said:
Now the question is, how much will gas prices go up?
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And the answer, if the FAA gets their way, is 50.7 cents per gallon:

http://www.aopa.org/faafundingdebate/

Fortunately, there are cooler heads prevailing with some of the Senators on the aviation subcommittee. Seeing that the Aviation Trust Fund has $16B and has grown by about $1B per year, I like this comment from John T. Salazar (D-Colorado) in response to Blakely's appeal to raise the GA gas tax from the current 19.4 cents/gallon to 70.1 cents/gallon.

"I'm still unconvinced that the current system of aviation excise taxes that has given us a stable and ample trust fund needs to be changed so drastically, and I'm very concerned about the impact on general aviation."
 
(121.5)

"Mayday, mayday, mayday!"

"Hello, and thank you for calling the 'mayday hotline'. For mayday payment using your Visa card, squawk 7701 now. For mayday payment using your Mastercard, squawk 7702 now. For mayday payment using your American Express card, squawk 7703 now. For mayday payment using all other cards, except Discover, squawk 7704 now."

(click, click, click, click)

"Thank you for squawking 7701. You will now be directed to squawk your account number, expiration date, and security code (located on the back of your Visa card). Between each four digits, key your microphone 7 times. Squawk your first four digits of your Visa code, followed by seven keys of your microphone, now."

I can just see this coming...

Quoting a very wonderful gentleman, "Sigh."

Jim
 
jshawley said:
(121.5)

"Mayday, mayday, mayday!"

"Hello, and thank you for calling the 'mayday hotline'. For mayday payment using your Visa card, squawk 7701 now. For mayday payment using your Mastercard, squawk 7702 now. For mayday payment using your American Express card, squawk 7703 now. For mayday payment using all other cards, except Discover, squawk 7704 now."

(click, click, click, click)

"Thank you for squawking 7701. You will now be directed to squawk your account number, expiration date, and security code (located on the back of your Visa card). Between each four digits, key your microphone 7 times. Squawk your first four digits of your Visa code, followed by seven keys of your microphone, now."
Click to expand...

Bwah ha ha! ;-)
 
Perhaps there are other funding sources:
"This winds aloft forecast has been brought to you by the new Lincoln Zephyr. I'll have the Papa John's Pizza Pireps for you in just a moment, but first: There is a convective sigmet all along your route of flight. But I have good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance ..." :rolleyes:
​
-- Pilawt
 
Pilawt said:
Perhaps there are other funding sources:
"This winds aloft forecast has been brought to you by the new Lincoln Zephyr. I'll have the Papa John's Pizza Pireps for you in just a moment, but first: There is a convective sigmet all along your route of flight. But I have good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance ..." :rolleyes:​
-- Pilawt
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At least someone else would be paying the user fees...

Jim
 
Pilawt said:
Perhaps there are other funding sources:
"This winds aloft forecast has been brought to you by the new Lincoln Zephyr. I'll have the Papa John's Pizza Pireps for you in just a moment, but first: There is a convective sigmet all along your route of flight. But I have good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance ..." :rolleyes:​
-- Pilawt
Click to expand...


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That is incredibly funny. Scary............but funny.
 
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