Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ah, I see. I was reading it on tapatalk and didn't see the excerpt from the prelim.
Bittersweet day, another crash at CRQ.
- Thread starter StinkBug
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Ah, I see. I was reading it on tapatalk and didn't see the excerpt from the prelim.
He should have landed on the ramp after the first tail strike.
The video doesnt show the first event. That was 3min earlier.
Sounds like a number of people pulled out their cell after the first wild ride.
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Which makes your guess no more (or less) accurate or precise than before.
Nauga,
carpe datum
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
That does make sense.
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That's by going on 30 RPM. I counted 54 revolutions in just the first minute of the video.
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How is measuring the distance off a factory drawing a guess?
(emphasis added)I count about 30 rpm on that video that syncs with a sound track, and I figure their position is no further than 6' from the mast, according to this calculator that is 1.84G.
The application of that value is what makes it a guess.
If you don't understand the uncertainty inherent in this type of analysis but continue to draw conclusions based on it then we'll have to get remedial.
Nauga,
and Marcellus
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He could've just said this ain't going to work and just left in on the ramp but the point of the platform is to move the aircraft to another area (hangar).
Never landed on a platform but my friends have said its intimidating at first but after awhile they get the hang of it. Same degree of precision trying to center on the H of a pad only in this case, there's little room for error.
I prefer the hydraulic transporter that we use. Takes only a few minutes to lift it and wheel it into the hanger.
StinkBug
Cleared for Takeoff
You guys can sit and bicker back and forth about vague calculations using drawings that don't show the seats, but the fact remains that 2 people died at some point in the sequence of events. Does it really matter when? Once he spit the tail rotor they were just along for the ride anyways.
That you sit so far forward on the skid probably wasn't helping him. My boss had a cool battery powered lift cart for his 412 that you just drove wth a remote control. Only took a few minutes to put the helicopter in or out.
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Yes, it really does. My point all along has been that we don't have sufficient information to tell, and it's simple to refute the BS and hand waving that some try to pass as 'analysis'
Nauga,
and vague notions
I wonder if he (or the FBO) had wheels for the plane.
He probably didn't notice that he hit the tail spike the first time he bumped the cart off its chocks.
1RTK1
Pattern Altitude
ACCURACY
- Accuracy descibes the nearness of a measurement to the standard or true value, i.e., a highly accurate measuring device will provide measurements very close to the standard, true or known values.Example: in target shooting a high score indicates the nearness to the bull's eye and is a measure of the shooter's accuracy. Refer to pictures below:
- Precision is the degree to which several measurements provide answers very close to each other. It is an indicator of the scatter in the data.The lesser the scatter, higher the precision. The pictures given below clearly describe Accracy and Precision.
StinkBug
Cleared for Takeoff
Seems to me it's less important to know if the initial impact killed them vs. the continued rotation, or the thing flopping on it's side, and more important to figure out the cause for the entire event in the first place. Any number of things could have been the thing that killed them, and it could have been different for each of them. Debating that minutia is stupid though, when the real cause for their death was what happened right before all that when the tail rotor hit the ground.
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I agree with you regarding the debating of minutiae but will continue to throw the BS flag when flawed "analysis" leads to questionable conclusions.
As to the relevance of the chain of events and the cause of death, I disagree. Survivability, or lack thereof, is an important part of each link in the chain, especially when considering corrective action.
Nauga,
Still looking for the pony
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Final report came out a couple months ago. Basically on Prescription meds, deteriorating pilot skills, and lack of proficiency in the aircraft.
CRQFlier
Pre-takeoff checklist
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That was a truly sickening scene. Report seems to point more at the OTC med not the Rx.
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AKBill
En-Route
Proficiency is very important to GA flyers. I struggle with it. Owned my plane for over 20 years. My average flight time over the 20+ years is 80 hours per year (over 1500 hours total time PIC). Work and weather are the main reasons I don't have more flight time than I do.
When I fly I do try to take time to do power on/off stalls and other maneuvers to sharpen my skills. Flying is a fun hobby, experience and decision making are a big point between a fun successful flight and a disastrous flight ending in tragedy.
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80 isn’t all that bad but I get what you’re saying. I do about 80 a year also. If they’re short flights with multiple T&Gs, it’s not so bad. Doing long flights and then weeks at a time in between isn’t the best for proficiency though.
I think for this guy it was just a lack of understanding for that particular helicopter. Never really mastered it and even wanted to go back to his old helicopter (B407). Just wish he would’ve heeded the other instructors advice and fly with a CFI for a few more hours before going it alone.
Even experienced commercial pilots have had problems switching from a Bell 206/407 to an AS350. Some even bailed and went back to Bells or a different type. The main issue was sight picture for most. In a Bell you sit over the forward landing gear crosstube and have a sight reference during landing. In a 350 you sit 3 feet in front of the crosstube with your references below and behind you. You could tell what model a pilot learned to fly in or had the most experience in by how he landed a 350--unless he was one of the one-percenters who can fly anything.
It was also unfortunate that he picked this particular model as it had FADEC and the engine ON/OFF switch was located in the overhead. Other versions either had the ON/OFF switch mounted on the lower instrument panel or it had a conventional fuel control system with a throttle mounted on the floor between the seats--which may have allowed the pilot to shutdown the engine.
Had a couple acquaintances involved with this. It was sobering from my perspective to hear the details. Trying to land on a dolly with 11 hours in type....
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Yeah I haven’t heard too many B407 guys that prefer the AS350 (now H125). Seems like most that have flown both, chose the 407. Never flown the Astar but with a 1,000 hrs in the 407, I really have no complaints for Bell.
One thing I noticed in the NTSB report is the pilot wanting to use SAS all the time for landings. I agree with the instructor in that the pilot needs to be able to land with SAS off or disengaged as well. I wouldn’t enforce it as an everyday technique but just in case of SAS failure.
Only if they had the choice and dependent on the job they wanted to fly. Performance wise the AS350B3/B3e (H125 is only a marketing number) blows the doors off a 407. So really it all depends on a number of reasons plus the ride is definitely better in the 350 than a 407.
From my stand point I prefer a Bell product over any Airbus, Eurocopter, Aerospatiale product but from a support and parts side. Then again I'm old school and liked 212s and 222s.
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Why does a pilot want to upgrade from a Cessna 172? Or buy a L-39? Same reasons. Speed, power, comfort. Or the Everest effect. An AS350B3e flew to the top of Mount Everest, landed with cameras rolling, and flew back to base. We'll never know for sure. But keep in mind this guy was not a weekend warrior. He had 25,000+ hours total flight time on the books and knew how the system works.
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I just fly what they give me so I don’t have a dog in the fight. Personally, if I had the money and was sticking with a VFR SE turbine, I’d go with an AW119 over both of them. That thing can move out!
