Bing

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Is it just me, or have the relevancy and quality of Bing's search results skyrocketed in the last couple of months?

I ask because I admit that my general dislike of Google as a company prejudices me in terms of evaluating search engines.

-Rich
 
Is it just me, or have the relevancy and quality of Bing's search results skyrocketed in the last couple of months?

I ask because I admit that my general dislike of Google as a company prejudices me in terms of evaluating search engines.

I abandoned Google search long ago when I noticed how their left-leaning agenda strongly influenced their search results. I am completely satisfied with Bing.
 
Microsoft has made a ton of improvements to bing. It's a whole lot better than it was a year ago. It seems that Google has retaliated with some changes of their own. Actually, for images and videos I give an edge to bing right now. Regular text searches is a toss up.
 
Great, now I have to spend more money... thanks a lot... ;p
 
Great, now I have to spend more money... thanks a lot... ;p

That's sort of half the reason why I asked the question. I have a lot of clients asking whether they should advertise on Bing. All the ones who already have started to do that are reporting much better ROI from Bing / Yahoo! than from Google Adwords.

The other half has to do with SEO. For years, Google was king, and everyone else was a distant step-child of a somewhat eccentric hereditary Lord that no one paid any attention to. Consequently, we optimized mainly for Google.

Bing seems to use different (and in my opinion, more accurate) algos, however, as evidenced by the relative infrequency of spam farms coming up as the first three pages of results.

I'm thinking that I need to start paying more careful attention to Bing rankings now, because if the improvements stick, I predict that Bing is going to grab a lot of users in the next 12 months.

-Rich
 
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I might have to consider giving Bing a try, but I really really really really really hate it when every time I turn around, ANOTHER one of my computers has made BING the default search engine. I don't like apps that force themselves on me like that. Especially after I remove it and later it comes back like mold.

I have always been happier with Google results than others, but now that it has been pointed out to me that their results are "left slanted", I may have to reconsider.
 
I was never a fan of Bing, perhaps I'll have to give it a second look.
 
I have always been happier with Google results than others, but now that it has been pointed out to me that their results are "left slanted", I may have to reconsider.

Yes, there are plenty of articles on Newsbusters and Freerepublic stating so. And a guy on a pilot web forum.

On the other hand there are self-appointed Christian and Conservative - approved search sites if you choose to tailor your information search results to any personal biases in those areas.

If a search is important using multiple sites is a good thing. I've found Google to still be tops but sometimes Bing is better. Clusty is great if you are trying to get deep results, though it is slow.

Of course if you are in the business of driving clicks to a business that is different.
 
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I was never a fan of Bing, perhaps I'll have to give it a second look.


It is much better than it use to be. Google is getting too commecial. It actually gives you links to paying customers ( SHOCKING i KNOW!) and you pay higher prices for stuff than Bing.
 
Bing has been cranking it out with updates/fixes and index optimization. The one thing I always like about bing is if you submit feedback, they usually address it or respond to you.

I'm trying to talk them into an aviation app for their bing maps..
 
i have no reason to believe that google is any more evil than microsoft
 
My only complaint with Google is that more and more searches are returning with other search engines which frequently don't find what I want. It would seem that these others a seeding the internet with any key word that will get them traffic whether or not they are relevent. I suspect Google to avoid monopoly charges is letting they do it to the determent of the user.
 
i have no reason to believe that google is any more evil than microsoft

Google stole 25k of mine with google checkout.. They're evil :mad:

Try and do business with google.. No phone support, 3-7 days to get email support and if you're not the top of the crop in revenue for them, forget about it.

With Microsoft.. I can call, get tier 3 support and get resolution to a problem before I get a google auto-response that my email has been processed.

Heck, Google doesn't even indemnify its partners.. Samsung is getting rapped by Apple and our X-Plane developer is getting trolled by patent trolls that Google could have fixed if they gave a ****. At least Microsoft indemnifies its marketplace, licensees and hardware vendors..

Use what works I say.. as long as its not ask.com lol
 
I want to like Microsoft. It's becoming increasingly hard to do though.

Actually, I think it's getting easier. At least Microsoft provides their affiliates with phone numbers that people actually answer, and working email addresses that people actually reply to -- promptly, thoroughly, and on-topic.

From Google, on the other hand, you can't even get a working email address, much less a phone number; and none of their forms seem to do anything other than send auto-responses.

Last year, it took me eight months -- EIGHT MONTHS -- to get my 1099 from Google after they sent it to the wrong address. The Web form they have specifically for that purpose would 404 on submission, and the umpteen submissions I made on the general Adsense support form never resulted in anything other than auto-responses.

I also posted on Google's Adsense help forums asking that someone from Google contact me (or just send the stupid form). No go. I frankly wonder whether anyone from Google even bothers to read the help forums.

When my extension to file was about to run out, I finally gave up and asked the IRS to contact Google about the 1099. It arrived two days later.

-Rich
 
It appears to me that the positive/negative opinions of Microsoft and Google strongly correlate to whether you have a business or end-user relationship. End users tend to have a more positive opinion of Google over Microsoft. Folks doing business with the companies seem to prefer Microsoft.

From an end-user perspective, Bing has done itself a disservice by being poor at producing relevant search results for too long. Many users have tried them at some point, and formed the conclusion that "Google is better than Bing". The vast majority of Google users find Google to be very good at providing the search results they need, so there's little motivation to go look for a better provider.

Even if Bing produces "better" search results than Google, it'll take a long time to get folks to change. If Google's "good enough" for most folks, and most folks already have the bit set that "Google is better than Bing", there's little motivation for change.
 
It appears to me that the positive/negative opinions of Microsoft and Google strongly correlate to whether you have a business or end-user relationship. End users tend to have a more positive opinion of Google over Microsoft. Folks doing business with the companies seem to prefer Microsoft.

From an end-user perspective, Bing has done itself a disservice by being poor at producing relevant search results for too long. Many users have tried them at some point, and formed the conclusion that "Google is better than Bing". The vast majority of Google users find Google to be very good at providing the search results they need, so there's little motivation to go look for a better provider.

Even if Bing produces "better" search results than Google, it'll take a long time to get folks to change. If Google's "good enough" for most folks, and most folks already have the bit set that "Google is better than Bing", there's little motivation for change.

Well... I'd be somewhat of an exception to that. I'm not too fond of Google as an end user, either. Here's why:

1. The search results aren't as relevant as they used to be. I get more link farms than I should; and "big," well-known content providers are favored over smaller content providers, even if the content provided by the smaller providers is more current and relevant. They have devalued freshness of content in favor of the size of a site.

For example, once in a while I need an answer to sort of technical question related to some technology I use, usually along the lines of why a script that used to work suddenly doesn't. Most time it's because some update or security patch that I missed broke my code, and I need to narrow the problem down so I can fix the problem. If my usual geek forums don't yield an answer, I search for it using search engines.

If I search on Google, I'll get dozens -- sometimes hundreds -- of results from years ago just because they happen to be from well-known sites. The fresh answer that I need usually is more likely to be on some relatively unknown site by some unknown geek who had the same problem, and was nice enough to post the solution, on some unknown but excellent forum; but because he's just some unknown geek on some unloved forum, his answer will be on page 37.

2. The user history and geolocation data-mining is hurting the relevancy of the search results. The results you get and the results I get on identical searches usually will not be the same. I have posted examples of this before, including screenshots.

If you're a heavy Google user who usually is logged in to Google, try doing a search and taking a screenshot. Then log in through a proxy server using your browser's "private" browsing mode and compare the results. There's at least a 50-50 chance that your results will be different.

3. There are too many different sorts of monetized results. Adwords I can deal with, and once in a while the ads will be relevant. I also don't blame Google for the irrelevant Adwords ads because the advertisers are the ones who specified the keywords.

But then you have Google Shopping and paid ads from eBay, NexTag, and so forth polluting the page, as well, before the organic results. Hey, everyone's trying to make money, so I don't blame Google for doing so, as well. But enough already. Sometimes almost the whole first page is ads. When the ads exceed the content, that's problematic for me.

4. I am sick and tired of Google asking me for my cell phone number. They're not getting it. Period. Most of family members don't have my cell phone number.

One time Google actually locked me out of my account for refusing to give them a cell number. No matter what I did, I couldn't get past that page. So I got a free Pinger number and gave that to them.

If I didn't have a business relationship with Google, I would have closed the account altogether.

5. Panda and Penguin are from the Pit of Hell. Rather than -- heaven forbid -- having a human being look at suspected link farms and other search spamming, Google deputized robots to do it.

Not only does this punish innocent site owners for links that OTHER PEOPLE posted to their sites (which comes more under the heading of business reasons to hate Google), but it also makes the results less relevant. Yes, there are link spammers, forum spammers, link farms, and the like. But there also are a lot of people who post links on forums because they point to truly outstanding sites and/or because they're dead-on relevant to the the topic of a post.

Even in my own case, I like embedding in-line images in posts on this forum that are about cooking and such, or because my post is of a sequential nature and I like to have the pictures spaced out with the content, or just because I think the embedding looks better than uploading the photos. But it's gotten to the point that I'm hesitant to embed pictures from any site except one of my own for fear of getting some other site owner penalized for spam links.

Humans can tell in a heartbeat the difference between links posted because they're relevant, and links posted as spam. But heaven forbid that Google should actually have a human look at these sorts of things.

Meh. That's enough. I could talk for days about all the ways how Google killed my love for them. But I won't. It just annoys me -- and probably everyone else.

-Rich
 
It just annoys me -- and probably everyone else.
I understand you don't like Google, but I think you underestimate how little most end-users care.

My mom and my sister don't have any problem with Google. They're unlikely to switch to Bing anytime in the near future.

I suspect there are a lot more search users like my mom and my sister than like you.
 
I only liked bing a few years ago when they offered 30 percent cash back on eBay purchases when you searched through them first it was crazy!! After that never looked at them.
 
Well, y'all have convinced me to give Bing another shot.
I tried to switch early on, but the uselessness of Bing's results was more irritating that the annoyances of Google.

And, Rich, I'm with you on the local-ization messing things up. I do generally appreciate it when I'm searching from my phone because that often means that I'm on the move and looking for something nearby; but from my desk, not so much.
 
Doesn't it bother anyone else that Bing seems to hijack the default search engine spot? I have about a dozen computers around my office and at least once a week I sign on one of them to do a search from the search box and it has been changed to Bing. And their search results generally suck compared to Google. At least for me.
 
I use altavista and lycos. Sometimes I even log into quantum link and ask around.
 
FWIW, tried Bing today for a computer tech question after first using Google.
Used the same search terms, the first word of which was the name of the product I was inquiring about.
Bing's first page of results totally ignored the product name and instead returned a bunch of results using the rather generic, overly popular, remainder of the terms ... completely useless to me!
 
Sorry to say it, but this attempt to once again convince users that Google sucks fails. Bing is still terrible and not relevant.

Google is faster and returns results I need within one page. Bing usually ignores key words in my search phrase.
 
Sorry to say it, but this attempt to once again convince users that Google sucks fails. Bing is still terrible and not relevant.

Google is faster and returns results I need within one page. Bing usually ignores key words in my search phrase.

You either don't live in the us or haven't tried it lately. I can guarantee that in the us market they're not ignoring words/phrases unless you specify those as a stop word.

Google doesn't suck, they blow :D
 
You either don't live in the us or haven't tried it lately. I can guarantee that in the us market they're not ignoring words/phrases unless you specify those as a stop word.

Google doesn't suck, they blow :D

I haven't encountered Bing ignoring words or phrases, either. I have encountered Google ignoring words unless I + them.

In fact, this was one of the things that first annoyed me: I would do a very specific search, get the wrong results, and then do a browser-search on the landing page for the term in question -- and it wouldn't be there. Sometimes a "related" term that Google thought I was looking for (because I'm an idiot, after all) would be there, sometimes not.

Even Google's "Verbatim" search isn't foolproof. It's somewhat better, but still ignores some things like punctuation, extensions, and (I think) stemming. But I will admit that it's better than the standard search -- which begs the question of why Google provides no way to default to Verbatim. Every time you want to use it, you have to select it.

I get better relevancy from Bing, Yahoo, or DuckDuckGo (which is a decent search engine and has much better privacy policies, despite the awful name).

My reason for caring, however, isn't to bash Google. I could probably spend the better part of my days doing that. I care mainly for business reasons. I'm trying to anticipate trends for my own business purposes.

I don't know to what extent I can do that: When StarOffice first came out, I predicted the death of MS-Office. And now that it's morphed into the free OpenOffice.org and its various forks (Libre Office, etc.), I understand even less why so many businesses and individuals spend so much money on software which, for the vast majority of users, provides essentially the same functionality as the readily available, open-source, free-beer alternatives.

Google's position is similar. There are plenty of people out there who don't know the difference between a Google search box and a browser address bar. I deal with them all the time, especially when pitching new clients. I put a mockup of a new, proposed site on a subdomain of my own domain, and they can't find it because they paste it into the Google search box rather than the address bar; and because the subdomain isn't indexed, it doesn't come up.

Sometimes they're so dull that I can't even help them find the address bar over the phone, so I wind up emailing them a link. Google has the advantage in this regard because there are plenty of people who don't even realize that they're using a search engine, much less that there are other search engines available to them.

But on the other hand, Bing is the default search engine on new Windows computers; so who knows... maybe when these same goofballs buy new computers, they may stick with Bing because it meets their needs (possibly even thinking it's Google -- we're not talking rocket surgeons here); and if that's the case, then I want to optimize for them.

-Rich
 
You either don't live in the us or haven't tried it lately. I can guarantee that in the us market they're not ignoring words/phrases unless you specify those as a stop word.

Google doesn't suck, they blow :D

I'm in IT, and currently delving into the guts of Oracle VM server for SPARC, and some other stuff.

When I'm doing searches it's generally for arcane technical details that aren't covered in Oracle documentation, and the tidbits are usually only found in blogs or forums... (example... On Solaris 11, how can I tell how many LDCs are used by all my virtualized disks and network interfaces?).

Google is consistently better than Bing at giving me relevant answers to my technical questions about Solaris and networking topics . I say that after a full week of submitting every query to both engines using the exact same input phrases.

I'd seen the advertising and decided to give Bing a shot. They're much better than they used to be, but still not as good for ME as Google.
 
I haven't encountered Bing ignoring words or phrases, either. I have encountered Google ignoring words unless I + them.

In fact, this was one of the things that first annoyed me: I would do a very specific search, get the wrong results, and then do a browser-search on the landing page for the term in question -- and it wouldn't be there. Sometimes a "related" term that Google thought I was looking for (because I'm an idiot, after all) would be there, sometimes not.

Even Google's "Verbatim" search isn't foolproof. It's somewhat better, but still ignores some things like punctuation, extensions, and (I think) stemming. But I will admit that it's better than the standard search -- which begs the question of why Google provides no way to default to Verbatim. Every time you want to use it, you have to select it.

I get better relevancy from Bing, Yahoo, or DuckDuckGo (which is a decent search engine and has much better privacy policies, despite the awful name).

My reason for caring, however, isn't to bash Google. I could probably spend the better part of my days doing that. I care mainly for business reasons. I'm trying to anticipate trends for my own business purposes.

I don't know to what extent I can do that: When StarOffice first came out, I predicted the death of MS-Office. And now that it's morphed into the free OpenOffice.org and its various forks (Libre Office, etc.), I understand even less why so many businesses and individuals spend so much money on software which, for the vast majority of users, provides essentially the same functionality as the readily available, open-source, free-beer alternatives.

Google's position is similar. There are plenty of people out there who don't know the difference between a Google search box and a browser address bar. I deal with them all the time, especially when pitching new clients. I put a mockup of a new, proposed site on a subdomain of my own domain, and they can't find it because they paste it into the Google search box rather than the address bar; and because the subdomain isn't indexed, it doesn't come up.

Sometimes they're so dull that I can't even help them find the address bar over the phone, so I wind up emailing them a link. Google has the advantage in this regard because there are plenty of people who don't even realize that they're using a search engine, much less that there are other search engines available to them.

But on the other hand, Bing is the default search engine on new Windows computers; so who knows... maybe when these same goofballs buy new computers, they may stick with Bing because it meets their needs (possibly even thinking it's Google -- we're not talking rocket surgeons here); and if that's the case, then I want to optimize for them.

-Rich

Google makes suggestions because people typo quite often. Its their way of making sure that the 99% of people that typo don't have to go to another page to get their stuff autocorrected, while the 1% (you) that never, ever, ever makes a mistake when they type automatically gets to where they want to go.

You'll also notice, unless its an obvious typo, 99% of the time, it just says "Did you mean 'robot chicken' - displaying results for 'robert chicken.'" and the results are what you would have wanted anyway.

I would think that someone in as technical a field as you are would understand the importance of what Google does - simplifying the internet for the 99% and making it more difficult for the 1% is certainly not a new thought or strategy.

But ultimately, if you want to see quick, relevant results, use google. If you want to see words disappear from your search, use bing:

Compare:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ncaa+c...e+basketball+2014+video+game&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

with
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie...94,d.b2I&fp=cb8d1a9726c4b93c&biw=1034&bih=596

Guess which one has a more relevant link on the first page?

Lets try a few more (I promise, I am not cherry picking, I'm just typing queries):
http://www.bing.com/search?q=japane...aurant+in+young+america,+mn&sc=0-29&sp=-1&sk=

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie...94,d.b2I&fp=cb8d1a9726c4b93c&biw=1034&bih=596

For those, why the hell is Bing returning steak houses in the top 3?

Finally, lets try a typo:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=frjnk+ocean&go=&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=frjnk+ocean&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie...94,d.b2I&fp=cb8d1a9726c4b93c&biw=1034&bih=596

Looks like they both do it! Better stop using Bing now too.
 
Google makes suggestions because people typo quite often. Its their way of making sure that the 99% of people that typo don't have to go to another page to get their stuff autocorrected, while the 1% (you) that never, ever, ever makes a mistake when they type automatically gets to where they want to go.

You'll also notice, unless its an obvious typo, 99% of the time, it just says "Did you mean 'robot chicken' - displaying results for 'robert chicken.'" and the results are what you would have wanted anyway.

I would think that someone in as technical a field as you are would understand the importance of what Google does - simplifying the internet for the 99% and making it more difficult for the 1% is certainly not a new thought or strategy.

< snip >

Looks like they both do it! Better stop using Bing now too.

Nick, unfortunately, the links mean nothing. Screenshots would be needed. My results and your results won't be the same (at least for Google, not sure about Bing) unless we both use proxies in the same city, and search using private mode to hide our histories.

I go through this all the time with clients. I'm seeing one thing, and they're seeing something completely different using the same search terms.

As for the corrections, I'm not talking about typos and misspellings. I'm talking about replacing search terms with synonyms. That may in fact be helpful to people who don't know what they should be searching for, but is annoying for those of us who do.

There are enough of us who actually do know what we're searching for, and who want Google to actually return the results for exactly what we typed into the box, that there's a site called FindErr that reformats whatever is typed into the box before passing the query to Google, in an attempt to make Google actually stop doing our thinking for us. Unfortunately, it works no better than Google's own Verbatim search, which is to say that it's mediocre.

There also are a gazillion threads about this annoying "feature" on Google's own product forums, apparently started by people who haven't yet realized that no one from Google bothers to read what's posted there, anyway.

Your position seems to be that Google is right in trying to make search safe for the technologically challenged. Well, fine. Everything else in society seems to be dumbing down to the LCD, so why not Google?

It would be nice, however, if they retained a default option like Verbatim for the rest of us, but one that actually was true to its name. One that just returned the results for what was searched on, thank you, even if it seemed like a misspelling or some other sort of error. That would be very welcome.

For the record, I really haven't noticed whether Bing does the same thing or not. I know that it corrects misspellings and stems words, the latter of which I find more annoying than the former; but I haven't noticed any replacement of search terms with synonyms. I also haven't come across Bing completely ignoring search terms, which Google has been doing since 2009.

For my part, again, I really don't care very much other than for business reasons. I no longer own any stock in Google (nor in Microsoft, for that matter). I'm just trying to guess trends.

-Rich
 
I recently determined that Bing Maps provides more accurate distances than Google Maps. Bing's measurements match my car's trip odometer while Google's estimate is 5% low.
 
Some of their sat imagery is higher res too.
 
I recently determined that Bing Maps provides more accurate distances than Google Maps. Bing's measurements match my car's trip odometer while Google's estimate is 5% low.

I just wish Bing had the walking/cycling maps.. but I agree, their precision is a bit better and since they partnered with Nokia their datasets are much stronger than they have ever been.
 
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