Beech Debonairs, any thoughts?

kyleb said:
Yep, the IO470, which, IIRC, is a 225 hp engine. Maybe Ron was talking about the E225's, not the 470. I need to check with an engine shop...
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The IO-470J is 225HP, the IO-470N is 260HP they come in flavors in between also.
 
Ron Levy said:
That said, I know there are pilots who feel their manhood is enhanced by flying a plane with wheels that go up and down. I'd guess they are also among the millions who've already bought ExtenZe. So, what's in your medicine cabinet? :D
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Was the F-111 a retract? :D:rofl:
 
kyleb said:
Yep, the IO470, which, IIRC, is a 225 hp engine. Maybe Ron was talking about the E225's, not the 470. I need to check with an engine shop...
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Yes, I'm talking about the E225 not the IO-470. I thought the deb's started in the E-225 era, but I guess I was wrong there. The V tails switched in 1957 or 58.
 
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bartmc said:
I was looking at early 60's models, the 33's had 225 HP and their 35 counterparts had 250-285HP. Wouldn't the biggest difference be the ASI in cruise? :D
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225 vs 250 HP would give 4-5 KTAS (3.5%) more at the same weight and if you factor in the weight of the extra fuel required the improvement will be diminished. Going all the way to 285 could add another 5 Kt or so or a total increase close to 10 Kt (about 8%). But at the same weight 285 vs 225 will add about 50% to the climb rate. If the displacement doesn't change (e.g. 225 vs 250) those % increases will be the same for all altitudes but (again using the same total weight) if you increase the CuIn the improvement will likely be greater at high altitude.
 
gismo said:
225 vs 250 HP would give 4-5 KTAS (3.5%) more at the same weight and if you factor in the weight of the extra fuel required the improvement will be diminished. Going all the way to 285 could add another 5 Kt or so or a total increase close to 10 Kt (about 8%). But at the same weight 285 vs 225 will add about 50% to the climb rate. If the displacement doesn't change (e.g. 225 vs 250) those % increases will be the same for all altitudes but (again using the same total weight) if you increase the CuIn the improvement will likely be greater at high altitude.
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Airspeed is a function of the cube root of horsepower.. i.e. not so much. I was more poking fun at the extra airfoil on the debs that rob knots.

But, HP is directly relational to climb and why I went with a V-Tail instead of a Deb.
 
gismo said:
225 vs 250 HP would give 4-5 KTAS (3.5%) more at the same weight and if you factor in the weight of the extra fuel required the improvement will be diminished. Going all the way to 285 could add another 5 Kt or so or a total increase close to 10 Kt (about 8%). But at the same weight 285 vs 225 will add about 50% to the climb rate. If the displacement doesn't change (e.g. 225 vs 250) those % increases will be the same for all altitudes but (again using the same total weight) if you increase the CuIn the improvement will likely be greater at high altitude.
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The climb is key. Getting to 9,000 ft in the 225 hp Debonair I often fly when loaded to gross is very painful.
 
jesse said:
The climb is key. Getting to 9,000 ft in the 225 hp Debonair I often fly when loaded to gross is very painful.
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Tell me aboutit. One of the reasons I ended up with a Baron was the many times I flew back to Mpls from near Traverse City Michigan. That involved a climb to something like 13000 MSL for the lake crossing and when the plane was loaded to near MGW (the tip tanks allowed takeoff weights a couple hundred pounds over the original MGW and that was even worse) it seemed like we were almost halfway through the trip by the time we topped out.
 
N2124v said:
Well hmmm, I may run to Waco and look at this one.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1586361.html
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All the numbers and words look right, I just bought a similarly equipped 35, this one looks nicer. I shopped for a year and looked at a lot of dogs. This one is a little more expensive than the market I was in by a smidgen, but I can see where your money would go especially if there's a little wiggle room on the price (and I didn't find one plane where there wasn't). My advice, is if you see something you like and all the signs and numbers work, take it. There's 99 pieces of crap and/or overpriced planes on the market for every good plane. I'd be happy to discuss my buying experience on my similar 35 with you if you want, PM me.
 
Finding one within a hundred miles of home is a birds-nest on the ground.

bartmc said:
All the numbers and words look right, I just bought a similarly equipped 35, this one looks nicer. I shopped for a year and looked at a lot of dogs. This one is a little more expensive than the market I was in by a smidgen, but I can see where your money would go especially if there's a little wiggle room on the price (and I didn't find one plane where there wasn't). My advice, is if you see something you like and all the signs and numbers work, take it. There's 99 pieces of crap and/or overpriced planes on the market for every good plane. I'd be happy to discuss my buying experience on my similar 35 with you if you want, PM me.
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Thanks, I will definitely contact you. I'm just starting to look, but this one is close enough I can make it a day trip.

It is a little bit more than what I was planning on spending, but not to far of a stretch. My criteria for anything has been decent paint, decent interior, low to mid time engine, upgraded avionics, and an autopilot of some kind. Finding all in one package has been difficult. I really just want to buy it and go.
 
Doc Bill Mitchell bases his Bo-35 in Waco, might be able to steer you to his mechanic or good shop for look-over.

N2124v said:
Thanks, I will definitely contact you. I'm just starting to look, but this one is close enough I can make it a day trip.

It is a little bit more than what I was planning on spending, but not to far of a stretch. My criteria for anything has been decent paint, decent interior, low to mid time engine, upgraded avionics, and an autopilot of some kind. Finding all in one package has been difficult. I really just want to buy it and go.
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N2124v said:
Thanks, I will definitely contact you. I'm just starting to look, but this one is close enough I can make it a day trip.

It is a little bit more than what I was planning on spending, but not to far of a stretch. My criteria for anything has been decent paint, decent interior, low to mid time engine, upgraded avionics, and an autopilot of some kind. Finding all in one package has been difficult. I really just want to buy it and go.
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There's a lot to be said for paying a little more to get what you eventually want. Considering that it would probably cost around $30k or more to upgrade a minimally equipped airplane to the level of this one you'd need to find one for well under $50k to end up in the same place.

Aside from the usual items to check, see if you can determine whether the GNS530 is one of the earlier 14v only versions which are no longer supported by Garmin.

Keep in mind that you should plan on spending around %10 of the purchase price on your first annual.
 
Here's a good comparison aircraft/drive. Port Ludlow to the harbor to Friday Harbor, WA.

Drive.....3 hours driving........3 hours of ferry(2 ferries) and waiting.

Fly.......20 minutes to airport.........23 minutes flight........10 minute walk
 
Only if you're not smart enough to do a proper pre-buy. Except for one club airplane that I bought a quarter-interest and subsequently learned that the club MX guy was clueless, my first annual has been no different than the others.
gismo said:
Keep in mind that you should plan on spending around %10 of the purchase price on your first annual.
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No, any pre-buy I do will be as through as possible. I've always had good pre-buys done and the annual was not an issue.
 
wabower said:
Only if you're not smart enough to do a proper pre-buy. Except for one club airplane that I bought a quarter-interest and subsequently learned that the club MX guy was clueless, my first annual has been no different than the others.
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While a decent pre buy inspection is useful and important, even with a "proper" pre-buy inspection (including getting a complete annual for that) it's common to find a fair number things in your first year of ownership that you want/need fixed. No inspection, at least no inspection that costs less than you paid for the airplane is going to uncover every fault or discrepancy. Mostly you're looking for the biggies that would make the deal untenable.
 
Depends on who's doing the looking, and whether it's want or need. Upgrades that a new owner may decide to purchase aren't part of the first annual inspection cost, although they may be lumped into the same shop visit.

gismo said:
While a decent pre buy inspection is useful and important, even with a "proper" pre-buy inspection (including getting a complete annual for that) it's common to find a fair number things in your first year of ownership that you want/need fixed. No inspection, at least no inspection that costs less than you paid for the airplane is going to uncover every fault or discrepancy. Mostly you're looking for the biggies that would make the deal untenable.
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N2124v said:
Thanks, I will definitely contact you. I'm just starting to look, but this one is close enough I can make it a day trip.

It is a little bit more than what I was planning on spending, but not to far of a stretch. My criteria for anything has been decent paint, decent interior, low to mid time engine, upgraded avionics, and an autopilot of some kind. Finding all in one package has been difficult. I really just want to buy it and go.
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I have the EXACT same panel as that Deb. Only difference is the audio panel is a touch nicer. Same A/P, same GPS, Same HSI, same DME, Same Nav/Comm. I have about 17 hours behind it now and it's the best thing since sliced bread. I came from a PA28-150 without an autopilot, KX155,KY197,KLN89B (IFR). the only thing on my want list is to upgrade the GPS to WAAS. The GTN/Glass panels are snazzier but it's an order of magnitude nicer than what was in the Cherokee and the Cherokee didn't have a bad panel in it.
 
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