Bay Area Sporting Event TFR's

[HeliNomad]

I have a question for you Bay Area pilots. Next week I have to pick someone up from SFO during Sunday's Giants game. My VFR helicopter flight to Napa KAPC puts me heading directly within the 3 nm radius of AT&T Park. What do you expect ATC will do with me upon leaving SFO? I know ATC can clear you through a sporting TFR but would you just ask for a departure to the north east like normal and see if they tell you about the game TFR? Or, should I avoid it all together and ask for a East bound departure direct Hayward and fly around Oakland? Upon leaving the Bravo airspace the tower controller always asks me if I would like VFR flight following. Should I just tell them I want to go North East and let them figure it out for me? I guess my real question is, if I'm talking to a controller and they are clearing me direct to a location that happens through a non-specifc notamed TFR such as a MLB game on a VFR flight am I always okay?

Thanks for the advise.

 

[Shawn]

Just being on FF does not clear you into Bravo, Restricted, or TFR airspace. Communication does not amount to authorization like class C or D airspace.

As a VFR pilot it is your responsibility to know the airspace and stay clear. If you bust the TFR without clearance it is on you, not them.

Now if you pick up FF, give them your intentions and they vector you right trough it, you are good to go, but don't assume it.

I would request FF from the tower on the ground with your intentions...then check in with ATC regarding the TFR clearance...and have a backup plan in case you have to remain clear.

 

[HeliNomad]

Now if you pick up FF, give them your intentions and they vector you right trough it, you are good to go, but don't assume it.

Thanks,

Seems logical. So it's like the Bravo clearance. You have to make sure they say you are cleared through the TFR and read back. Asking the busy SFO tower for FF through the TFR might be interesting. Remember as helicopters we don't talk to clearance delivery...straight to the tower from startup. Might be an interesting one for the tower but I assume they are used to it. Anyone have first hand experience on this from SFO?

 

[poadeleted20]

Have you considered deviating from the straight line and circumnavigating the stadium staying more than three miles from it?

 

[HeliNomad]

Have you considered deviating from the straight line and circumnavigating the stadium staying more than three miles from it?

There really isn't enough room to the North East between Oakland C and the stadium. Too close to call.

 

[Palmpilot]

If you get FF, you will be in contact with Norcal Approach, so you will be legal to pass through the class C.

 

[HeliNomad]

If you get FF, you are legal to pass through the class C.

In my experience they usually don't let me cross into the surface C on the north end of the runway because that puts you in the missed approach for Oakland.

 

[Palmpilot]

I guess I should have looked at a chart first.

 

[poadeleted20]

There really isn't enough room to the North East between Oakland C and the stadium. Too close to call.

How about going the other side of the TFR?

In any event, you're not going to get (or even need) a TFR waiver if you're only passing by -- just call NorCal on the phone the day prior and discuss it with them. I'm about as sure as I can be they'll figure out something.

 

[Palmpilot]

Based on this wording from the TFR, it sounds like all you need to do is be in contact with ATC and follow their instructions:

"THE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES..."

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_9_5151.html

 

[Palmpilot]

How about going the other side of the TFR?

In any event, you're not going to get (or even need) a TFR waiver if you're only passing by -- just call NorCal on the phone the day prior and discuss it with them. I'm about as sure as I can be they'll figure out something.

Yeah, this is for sure not a new situation for SFO Tower or Norcal Approach.

 

[MAKG1]

Passing to the west instead of the east is the usual way to deal with this. That, or flying higher than 3000 MSL. There is often another stadium TFR adjacent to KOAK, and it's right in line with the usual transition route.

Above 3000 is in Class B, but it's common to do transitions at 3500. I've done them over Angel Island, which is only slightly west of a direct course.

SFO Tower might know something about TFR clearance because it's very near the Class B surface area, but I'd expect them to defer to NorCal.

 

[BillTIZ]

I don't know how NORCAL works, but around here TRACON did not have a clue.

We had a NASCAR TFR at the local speedway, I was coming back into the area and checked in with TRACON. I asked if the TFR was over (1 hr after the checkered flag) and they did not even have a clue about the TFR even existing.

Remember Stadium TFRs are not published in the daily NOTAMS, you are expected to know the game/race schedule. So I would not expect NORCAL to have a clue.

 

[HeliNomad]

Alright so I called NorCal Tracon center and asked them what I should do point blank. They were very straight forward. They just said to tell the tower at SFO that I want FF out of the class B to the North East. As long as I am talking to someone in the TFR I am fine. They will clear me over treasure island and then north east from there. I'm satisfied.

 

[clear_prop]

Norcal Approach seems to have no problem clearing people into the stadium TFRs. Flying the Bay Tour, if the AT&T Park one is active, they just tell you to remain north and west of the Bay Bridge. Transitioning over OAK, I've gotten 'coliseum at 2000ft' many times while games were in progress.

I think ATC understands that the stadium TFRs are bogus and just there to prevent advertising (banner tows) that are not approved by the stadium.

 

[Palmpilot]

I think ATC understands that the stadium TFRs are bogus and just there to prevent advertising (banner tows) that are not approved by the stadium.

Ah, but it's "national defense airspace," doncha know?

 

[poadeleted20]

Alright so I called NorCal Tracon center and asked them what I should do point blank. They were very straight forward. They just said to tell the tower at SFO that I want FF out of the class B to the North East. As long as I am talking to someone in the TFR I am fine. They will clear me over treasure island and then north east from there. I'm satisfied.

See? Nice and simple -- all you had to do was ask the right party.

 

[MAKG1]

I don't know how NORCAL works, but around here TRACON did not have a clue.

We had a NASCAR TFR at the local speedway, I was coming back into the area and checked in with TRACON. I asked if the TFR was over (1 hr after the checkered flag) and they did not even have a clue about the TFR even existing.

Remember Stadium TFRs are not published in the daily NOTAMS, you are expected to know the game/race schedule. So I would not expect NORCAL to have a clue.

Actually, almost all of the local stadiums are in NorCal's or some tower's airspace. The one exception is the Sonoma Raceway, which is in Oakland Center's.

In retrospect, the Coliseum is closer than 3 miles to KOAK. They don't close the North Field during games, though they do announce their existence on ATIS.