Bashing instructors

murphey said:
Probably the most challenging aspect of flying the twin Cessna is uploading the new database into the FMS.
:goofy:
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We don't even do that. It's a maintenance function. :)

Simplest airplane around. It flies itself. It tends to be a bit of a hypochondriac though...
 
ronnieh said:
P1lot, you too must be wrong. KSC says "there are plenty of non instructing jobs at less than 500 hours". Appears to be plenty of openings for air carrier at 250 hours. KSC, when you get time maybe you could post or link some of these. I have a couple of friends been looking for anything for over a year. They have way over 500 hours so they should be a shoo-in. I know they will appreciate the help. In the southeast would be great but, I susoect anything in the eastern half of the US would be considered.
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How am I wrong? You quoted KSC, I said you have to know someone, that's how aviation is. Other than that, there is CFI.

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Choosing a CFII is usually a better prospect as the student should have an idea of what they don't want, but it's still scary. In many ways the CFI(I) will mold the student like unto himself and if the Instructor is a poor aviator, either stick n rudder or judgement, then Watch Out!

What types of things should the prospective student ask to gauge the competency of the instructor? I once asked a question in a room of CFII's and got IDK responses. One even said to go online for the answer! (for heaven's sakes, everyone knows you can't learn anything about flying online).
 
Jaybird180 said:
I once asked a question in a room of CFII's and got IDK responses. One even said to go online for the answer! (for heaven's sakes, everyone knows you can't learn anything about flying online).
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That's probably a bad sign. I wouldn't mind speaking with former students if possible to get their opinion on the instructor.
 
p1lot, I was poking fun at KSC. I really agree with you. You will notice I never did get that list of jobs from KSC.
 
My first two CFI's were in their mid to late 30s both great guys. But there are some young gun CFI's who I know could teach me a hell of a lot, Ted, Jess and Jason in particular!

CFIs like any other profession can get in to stereotypes.
 
ronnieh said:
p1lot, I was poking fun at KSC. I really agree with you. You will notice I never did get that list of jobs from KSC.
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Every spring, there are numerous aerial mapping jobs open @ 500TT. Hagland is advertising at 250 TT, as is Gulfstream International/Silver Airways. What more do you want? There are others jobs out there, but they require pavement pounding, not emails and websites.

Heck, I bet that if one really wanted a job, they could get on with my company at or around 400TT.

But hey, you know what, if they really wanted a job, they would find it. Since they haven't, they either don't want a job bad enough, or aren't willing to move/take the pay offered.
 
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Depends on the person...If one is highly motivated, willing to learn (nobody knows everything, and most importantly, live in the moment , I think a low timer could make an excellent instructor.One of the worst instructors I had logged a few thousand dual given over the years, so time isn't everything...Alot of on the job training is involved with teaching of any kind, but I think those who are motivated and willing to improve themselves as teachers can turn out to be excellent instructors. Even the high time, older flight instructors had 0 dual given at some point. Unless they spent time doing some other kind of teaching, they too had to build themselves as teachers.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
No doubt. If one wants a job at 500 hour or less, one has to be willing to move anywhere and everywhere and not be picky about what you are doing beyond flying.

My number one reason for not wanting to teach was getting a primary student. I really feel that primary students are the ones who should be getting the more senior, experienced instructors and the newer instructors should be teaching the more advanced stuff, such as commercial maneuvers and instrument stuff.
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I don't disagree with that. I can teach an already certificated pilot how to fly a chandelle or shoot an ILS all day, but teaching a primary student how to land can be a daunting task.
 
GCA319 said:
I don't disagree with that. I can teach an already certificated pilot how to fly a chandelle or shoot an ILS all day, but teaching a primary student how to land can be a daunting task.
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It is at first, but after awhile it becomes as easy teaching Lazy 8s or anything else.. Depending on the student, some pick it up faster than others, but I have it down now (been at it 4yrs) where I already know what maneuver we can practice next lesson to help remedey the error they are making.

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My first CFI was a 22 year old kid on his way up, but I was just a kid myself. He knew what he was talking about but had an attitude and his demeanor did not lend well to people learning from him. He's been flying for FedEx for the past 15 years so it worked out better for him than me.

Every chance I had I'd fly with another young CFI (the students traded between them, depending on the CFIs' schedules) who was great. But because he was so much better his schedule was always full.

Within a few months both CFIs had moved on and I ended up with another 20something CFI, Kyle, who also flew for the National Guard. Talk about CFI For Dummies...This guy could have taught anyone anything.

A few years went by and I thought helicopters would be fun, but the nearest place to train was 120 miles away. The first CFI was, naturally, a kid, and he was more interested in flying the machine himself than letting me on the controls. I found another CFI another 15 miles further, a middle aged guy, and I thought it would be perfect. Except for the first dozen lessons he was late showing up over half the time....and didn't show at all the other times.

So I opt for another training facility 150 miles the other direction. If anyone knows Jess Sherwood they'll know exactly what I'm saying. Middle-aged, incredibly intelligent, professional demeanor, and tough as nails. The kind of guy who makes you want to fly well not for yourself, but so that you don't disappoint him.

Great CFIs come in all ages with a variety of hours under their belts.
 
My experience shows that older instructors "know what they don't know" (or at least know they dont know it all) and that is what is really important for me. My private pilot instructor was in his 30's, with 4000+ hours, came BACK from airlines because he liked teaching better. My instrument instructor was in his 50's, and does it for fun after work. They were both amazing instructors. They admitted when they didn't know stuff, and worked with me to find out the answer. One prompted me to talk to the FSDO and stuff like that, something I wouldn't have thought of.

Now, the other instructors I've had were in their 20's, 300 hours maybe. They acted like their crap didnt stink. They seemed to think they knew it all. I've had some big arguments with some that resulted in me printing off legal interpretations to "school" them.

When I know more than an instructor, and they don't even act like they need to learn stuff too or at least admit they don't know, I lose all respect for them.
 
ajstoner21 said:
My experience shows that older instructors "know what they don't know" (or at least know they dont know it all) and that is what is really important for me. My private pilot instructor was in his 30's, with 4000+ hours, came BACK from airlines because he liked teaching better. My instrument instructor was in his 50's, and does it for fun after work. They were both amazing instructors. They admitted when they didn't know stuff, and worked with me to find out the answer. One prompted me to talk to the FSDO and stuff like that, something I wouldn't have thought of.

Now, the other instructors I've had were in their 20's, 300 hours maybe. They acted like their crap didnt stink. They seemed to think they knew it all. I've had some big arguments with some that resulted in me printing off legal interpretations to "school" them.

When I know more than an instructor, and they don't even act like they need to learn stuff too or at least admit they don't know, I lose all respect for them.
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That's a result of attitude, not age. I'm in my 20s with 400 TT (not a CFI yet, but if all goes as planned, I'll be one by the end of next month) and I fully acknowledge that I don't know my ass from a smoking hole in the ground:yikes:
 
ajstoner21 said:
My experience shows that older instructors "know what they don't know" (or at least know they dont know it all) and that is what is really important for me. My private pilot instructor was in his 30's, with 4000+ hours, came BACK from airlines because he liked teaching better. My instrument instructor was in his 50's, and does it for fun after work. They were both amazing instructors. They admitted when they didn't know stuff, and worked with me to find out the answer. One prompted me to talk to the FSDO and stuff like that, something I wouldn't have thought of.

Now, the other instructors I've had were in their 20's, 300 hours maybe. They acted like their crap didnt stink. They seemed to think they knew it all. I've had some big arguments with some that resulted in me printing off legal interpretations to "school" them.

When I know more than an instructor, and they don't even act like they need to learn stuff too or at least admit they don't know, I lose all respect for them.
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A good side story:

I was preparing for my Commercial ASEL with the CFI who signed me off for all of my checkrides to date (and a good friend of mine as well) who's a 6000 hour ATP with tons of 135 and 91 experience. We were talking about prog charts and he fully admitted that his knowledge of weather charts was extremely limited (alot of us get text only briefings with decoded text and have to be reminded how to do it the way we learned). Admitting what you don't know and going to look it up is much more effective than bs'ing your way through it.
 
Since the thread since moved on from bashing to general instructing, I thought I'd mention that my taste in instructors have evolved considerably in the past 150 hours. When I started flying, I thought that it would be best if my CFI just let me listen to what airplane wanted to tell me. If I did not unstand what it's saying, I'd ask. Now, I think that most instructors are too kind to me for my own good, and I want my mistakes pointed out.
 
GCA319 said:
That's a result of attitude, not age. I'm in my 20s with 400 TT (not a CFI yet, but if all goes as planned, I'll be one by the end of next month) and I fully acknowledge that I don't know my ass from a smoking hole in the ground:yikes:
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You'll find out quickly how much you really do know as well as don't know when you try to teach it to someone else. It really is the best to way find out if you really understand something, try to teach to someone who doesn't know a thing about it.






GCA319 said:
A good side story:

I was preparing for my Commercial ASEL with the CFI who signed me off for all of my checkrides to date (and a good friend of mine as well) who's a 6000 hour ATP with tons of 135 and 91 experience. We were talking about prog charts and he fully admitted that his knowledge of weather charts was extremely limited (alot of us get text only briefings with decoded text and have to be reminded how to do it the way we learned). Admitting what you don't know and going to look it up is much more effective than bs'ing your way through it.
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This. I have never had a student get upset because I looked something up. In fact, showing that you are indeed fallible once in a while both flying and on the ground is usually good for easing the tension, providing a learning experience, and letting the student know that you are indeed also a human ;) "Oops hey I lost some altitude I better pull back more next time."






zaitcev said:
Since the thread since moved on from bashing to general instructing, I thought I'd mention that my taste in instructors have evolved considerably in the past 150 hours. When I started flying, I thought that it would be best if my CFI just let me listen to what airplane wanted to tell me. If I did not unstand what it's saying, I'd ask. Now, I think that most instructors are too kind to me for my own good, and I want my mistakes pointed out.
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Constructive, objective, critisism is important. A good instructor should be giving you constant feedback whether positive or negative all the time and above all teaching non-stop. I mean **** what are they charging you $30-60/hr?

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Jaybird180 said:
....sometimes silence is golden.
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Ha, the only time I am silent is when I am staring at my student in disbelief because I know they know better than that.. They can feel the piercing silence like a vacuum in their head[set].

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