Baron 58 vs Cessna 310R 5-6 Adults?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by JC150, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm trying to help a friend find information regarding the 5th and 6th seats in either of these frames. I figured someone on here would have experience with both of these planes.

    So here's the question: With both the Cessna 310R and Baron 58 with all 6 seats facing forward, which aircraft allows the passengers in the last row (seats 5 & 6) to have the most 'comfort' (elbow room and legroom)?

    We sat in the back of a Baron 58 with club seating to try it out, 3 of us total, and it was really uncomfortable trying to interlace legs and get comfortable. I can't imagine putting 4 adults back there. So I was told forward facing is the only way to go. We couldn't find a Cessna 310 to try out, but a web search for Cessna 310 interior images showed a much wider interior and what appears to be more legroom between the last row and middle row seats compared to the Baron 58 in forward facing configuration; but that's why I'm asking here to confirm that.

    His mission is to carry 4 adults plus himself (5 adults total) on 400-500 mile trips. I doubt you could fit 2 adults in the back row of either the 310 or baron 58 in a forward facing configuration unless I'm wrong?
     
  2. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    In my opinion the baron and the 310R are suitable for four adults and two children max. I've had a smaller young woman scamper into the back row in the 310, and that was an effort. Usually I have my kids crawl through the baggage door. Imho, there is not room for 3-4 adults to sit comfortably in a club configuration.
     
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  3. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    Six adults, unless the four in the back are members of the US women's gymnastics team, are not going to be comfortable in either airplane. If it's a once in a while thing, you can squeeze a couple SMALL women into the back of a 310, but 5th and 6th seats are designed for kids.
    Honestly, for six adults to travel comfortably, I'd look at a 414/421 or a Navajo. Airplanes are like cars, you don't want to put 6 adults in a 6 passenger car!
     
  4. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    Consider looking at a Cessna 340, their smallest cabin class twin. Six adults, no problem.

    Aero Commander 500 may be another good option.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  5. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I flew C310s (various models) Part 135 and as Eggman says, it's really a 4 place (adults) and possible to put 2 small children in the third seat. You might be able to squeeze 5 adults but I think that would be it. At least you're talking about the R model because prior model 310s are even worse for W&B. R model has the long nose with a baggage compartment up there which helps tremendously with W&B. Never flown a Baron but I would imagine similar problems trying to carry 6 adults.
     
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  6. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you are trying to haul 6 adults and you want legroom, you need a Beech 18.

    I'm half serious. There really aren't too many piston airplanes with that kind of room.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  7. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Here's a shot of the interior of a T310R I flew back in May to get an idea. The photo makes it look a little smaller than it is, but I agree with the above comments, having 4 adults would be snug. The two seats behind the pilot and co-pilot are rather roomy but the 5-6 seat are comparable to the 3rd row in an SUV.
     

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  8. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Navajo or Navajo Chieftain.
     
  9. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach

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    Cessna 207 will do it!
     
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  10. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    You can see my then 13 year old daughter a bit scrunched in back. Put the armrests down and it isn't horrible to get back there, but...

    This 310R has nearly 1000lb useful with full fuel and I was using about all of it on this flight, but everyone was comfortable. IIRC, this was a four hour leg.
    image.jpeg
     
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  11. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Honest question: how do you get females to do 4 hour legs without a potty onboard?
     
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  12. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Buy a new plane :D
     
  13. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    Genetics and salt. We give them a salty snack on the way to the airport. My wife and girls have no troubles going that long. We keep Gatorade bottles for the boys who generally can't go that long.
     
  14. hotprops

    hotprops Line Up and Wait

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    c206 ftw
     
  15. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's a perfect picture to put the interior to scale. Exactly what I was trying to find.

    I got to sit in the baron again with all seats facing forward this time. The benefit I saw was the pilot's seat and middle row seats can now recline. But elbowroom and legroom is worse than sitting in economy. The 310's cabin appears to be 8 inches wider which my friend likes. The Baron is just too narrow.

    Does the 310's 5th and 6th seats have more legroom than the Baron 58 in a forward facing configuration? The Baron's floor slopes downwards which helps with legroom, but the 310 looks flat?
     
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  16. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    image.jpeg The back is flat. To give an idea of shoulder space in the 310, my brother is on the left and is 6'5" and 290lbs.
     
  17. mirage00

    mirage00 Pattern Altitude

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    303-Interior.jpg

    Just purchased a Cessna Crusader T303. Great airplane! Not many around but a few show up from time to time.
     
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  18. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Another great picture James! That's perfect. Thanks for the info.

    Mirage, How does a T303 compare to say a Cessna 335?
     
  19. mirage00

    mirage00 Pattern Altitude

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    It's a lighter built aircraft with an unpressurized cabin. Tube is slight smaller but not by much. Much lighter on the controls than the 340 but rock solid stable. Cruise is 170kts at 8000ft with 24x24 while burning 24gph. It has two IO550s derated engines that produce 250hp. Right engine turns counter clockwise. Short field performance is phenomenal. Trailing link gear that's approved for unpaved fields. Do some research, it's the only piston airplane ever wind tunnel tested by Cessna. Truly a diamond in the rough.
     
  20. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Out of curiosity, is it possible to go from the front seat of the baron to the rear cabin in a club configuration? It looks like there's some space to slide your legs but not nearly the kind of space the 310 seems to offer.
     
  21. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If your wife is a gymnast, yes.
     
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  22. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen Pattern Altitude

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    6 seats, 7 people? Don't think I'd be posting that one on the Internet.
     
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  23. DMD3.

    DMD3. Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Not to get off topic, but the Cessna Stationair has an 8-seat option. Imagine how tiny those two extra seats must be...
     
  24. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    I'm of the belief that if two of them combined are under 170lbs it is legal - all of them certainly flew as lap children on commercial flights in the past. One could make the argument that two in one belt compromises safety, but I judged the increase in risk to be minimal.

    Having said that, I now fly something with seven seats.
     
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  25. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    The gear on the 303 looks like its made for carrier landings!
     
  26. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've seen someone with 8 small children in the back of a seneca and 2 adults up front.. 10 total
     
  27. wayne

    wayne Line Up and Wait

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    Not all females have small bladders. We have three girls and all have been great on road trips. The oldest hasn't flown with me, but the other two and my wife have never had issues, even up to the rare 4+ hr leg flight.

    I remember road trips with my parents and younger sister. My Mom and sister would split a 12 oz Sprite and my Dad and I would each get a 12 oz soda with caffeine; back before larger bottles. My Mom or sister would always need to stop for a bathroom break before my Dad or I would need a break.

    I have to watch how much I drink before flying now. A large part of that is staying very hydrated from triathlon training.
     
  28. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    On my flight last week 4 adults and 100 gallons of 100ll plus baggage put us 420 lbs. under gross. That being said my wife likes to take the house with us when traveling...:eek: I haven't tried to put six in mine nor have I climbed back there to check it out. I have a seat up front reserved for me after all...:goofy:
     
  29. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    6 adults in a 206? Hell no.
     
  30. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No.

    Barons are pretty tight width wise. You really don't have enough space to squeeze between the seats like you kind of can in a Piper Seneca.
     
  31. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    James, do you know anything about the Bearcat conversion? I heard its an IO-550 but its de-rated to 285hp still? How does the 310 run LOP? I've read some other threads online where people complained about the fuel system. Is it really that difficult?
     
  32. Maurice Ellis

    Maurice Ellis Filing Flight Plan

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    I was about to say that too, let's just say they were just getting a shot of the interior with a crowded cabin on the ground ;)
     
  33. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Mine has GAMI and a JPI. LOP is how I run it and average 178 knots on 27 gallons running that way... The Bearcat conversion for the R model is 300hp. Here's the url from their site.

    http://www.mikejonesaircraft.com/bearcat.htm
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  34. JC150

    JC150 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Twin_Flyer, I read on the beech forums that it was a 300hp engine but still derated to 285hp, but that was posted in 2011 and maybe things have changed. Kind of like Mirage00's T303 which is derated to 250hp?
     
  35. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the 310 fuel system other than it is more complicated than the dirt simple Baron fuel system.
     
  36. mirage00

    mirage00 Pattern Altitude

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    Here is the exact engine info.... Powerplant: 2 × Continental TSIO-520-AE/LTSIO-520-AE turbocharged air-cooled flat-six piston engine, 250 hp
     
  37. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    :yeahthat:, it has it's procedure and that just something you have to learn... JC150, I don't think they are de-rated but I could be wrong. I'm not an expert on them nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...:eek2::eek2::eek2:
     
  38. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    I'm not a bearcat expert, but I have heard that not all bearcat operators always remember to restrict the mp to obtain 285hp. I think you can plan on about 10 kts over the 520's with the commensurate increase in fuel. I ran my 310 LOP as a rule, sometimes even in climb.

    The fuel system isn't complicated if you follow a few rules -

    1. First hour and last 30 minutes are on the mains.
    2. Return fuel from engines goes to the mains so there needs to be room there when you're running the aux tanks. See rule #1.
    3. If engine driven pump fails any fuel in the aux tanks is unavailable. See rules #1 and #2.

    I would usually run the mains down to 25 gallons and then switch to the aux tanks and run them dry or until I had 30 min remaining. It really isn't hard.
     
  39. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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    I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I got my advice from a pretty well known DPE. If two pax combined are under 170 lbs and can be belted then it is legal.
     
  40. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yea I counted twice to make sure there were 7 and wondered the same thing.

    Here we go on the way reasons why it's ok! :goofy: