Banned from Beechtalk for no good reason

docmirror said:
Jeez, gotta be something wrong there. S35 with a G430 and coupled STEC-50 for that price? I almost want to call to see if this is some kind of scam. That's a ton of plane for the price, and I have NO affiliation.
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That price is about right.

I bought a N35 with almost the exact same specs, except a new engine and prop hanging on it for less.
 
V's are the bargain of the century in used planes these days. Imagine what the similar 210 price would be. I am gobsmacked.
 
skynewbie said:
Actually I've been looking for less than a year.
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I stand corrected, at least on the red board. It was 1/08/2013 you announced the $200K budget and wanting an airport home. That's more then a year but less then the 2 I mentioned.

You've long since moved on from that but got $20-25K cash? You could be flying your own plane in a few weeks. My first plane cost me $23K in 2003 and was a Cherokee 180.


benpilot said:
Thanks AggieMike88,

I am planning to find a hangar home outside of the bay area and want a fast plane to fly to work in bay area. For what a home costs in Palo Alto, one can afford a nice home and plane outside of Silicon Valley. Under 200k is my budget for a used plane. If I find a hangar home that covers the storage and I can use tie down in bay area for parking fees. I would say 90% of the time, I will be flying solo at most 2 other passengers. I am planning to fly every weekend so about 150-300 hours per year on average.

Budget is not issue as I have zero debt and want to buy used to save on costs as a new Cirrus costs 600k for an SR22 and used for under 200k.
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brian];1519803 said:
It's kind of funny, but if you look on BeechTalk, Ben has 2 of the top 10 "Best of BT" threads. Judging on what is in this thread, Ben has successfully become the most well known aviators on the internet :)
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He certainly has eclipsed PilotKris and that was a tough act to follow.
 
docmirror said:
Jeez, gotta be something wrong there. S35 with a G430 and coupled STEC-50 for that price? I almost want to call to see if this is some kind of scam. That's a ton of plane for the price, and I have NO affiliation.
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Yea, V Tails are selling at crazy low prices. Bumped into a guy that got a G35 with a NEW Continental O-520, good (not great) avionics, excellent paint and pretty good interior. Cost for this aircraft that easily cruises at 170KTS? $40K. Only issue he had was replacing one cylinder...

My -35 was an ok deal with a fairly new engine, not great paint, good interior with a GNS430 and STEC 30. $34K once the dust settled. (Then I added some STCs - but that is another matter.) Great IFR/complex trainer.

(The best I've heard is to stay with the H35 or later, unless you have access to a mechanic that knows the older 35's.)
 
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I've followed Ben on BT as well. The members bent over backwards to show him the Beech options available out there. At some point Ben just has to buy. I get the deal hunting. I did something similar...except I bought a plane. I was Mooney hunting but ended up with a Bonanza.

As far as brokers go, I have a rule against considering anything from a broker. Won't buy it, can't make me. There's a premium baked in that I just can't pay out of principal (not saying it's rational). If that is a hump that Ben just can't crest, the he shouldn't look at planes listed by brokers.

For the record, BT has a wonderful knowledge base. I do think some of the more savvy salesmen are cleaning up over there and will do whatever it takes to keep that market isolated. As long as you know to expect inflated prices it's not a bad place. Just be selective with your purchases and shop around first.

All in all, the individuals over on BT are generally generous, helpful people. If you're willing to play nice it's a really great resource for a Beech owner.

Ben should have just said "thanks for your help" and walked away. I don't think Ben will buy a plane, but if he does I hope he ends up with a GV. People with $200k to drop on planes generally don't waste time going 'round and 'round on internet forums.
 
brian];1519962 said:
(The best I've heard is to stay with the H35 or later, unless you have access to a mechanic that knows the older 35's.)
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I would say the J35 (1958) and up is the major "break" in classic vs early modern. The O470G carb on the H model is a little goofy, and there's not really a price spread between the two. May as well get the injected IO-470C for the same money.

(just one brand B deal-hunter's opinion) :)

- Mike
 
Jeff K said:
He certainly has eclipsed PilotKris and that was a tough act to follow.
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That's a mighty big accusation. ;)

I won't agree with it though, PK knew his **** about airplanes and knew the right buttons to push. He spawned a 26 page debate on challenger air filters, that takes talent.
 
skynewbie said:
I know what a broker does.
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One thing a good one does is isolate the seller from tire kickers and worse (e.g. people more interested in telling the seller what's wrong with their airplane and why nobody should buy it). Sometimes that POs the kicker.
 
schmookeeg said:
I would say the J35 (1958) and up is the major "break" in classic vs early modern. The O470G carb on the H model is a little goofy, and there's not really a price spread between the two. May as well get the injected IO-470C for the same money.

(just one brand B deal-hunter's opinion) :)

- Mike
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Didn't know about the carb on the O470G - interesting...

Too bad Ben is no longer on BeechTalk. Pretty good A35 over there for $25K. Yep, $25K for something that cruises at 140KTS on 10-11GPH MOGAS.
 
gismo said:
One thing a good one does is isolate the seller from tire kickers and worse (e.g. people more interested in telling the seller what's wrong with their airplane and why nobody should buy it). Sometimes that POs the kicker.
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Brokers tend to be pretty efficient at weeding out the dreamers.
 
brian];1520011 said:
Didn't know about the carb on the O470G - interesting...

Too bad Ben is no longer on BeechTalk. Pretty good A35 over there for $25K. Yep, $25K for something that cruises at 140KTS on 10-11GPH MOGAS.
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I got my eye on that one. It's also on TAP, so no broker needed. Looks like another screaming deal.

You are way wrong on the speed though. That unit has 225HP and 88" prop. I can get 160knots no prob, and more if I'm willing to stay low and burn lotsa mogas. With the wife, who's always in a rush I regularly cruise well into the yellow arc.
 
docmirror said:
He doesn't sound like Beechcraft material so far. :rofl:

Then again, I'm not Beechcraft material either, but I have one. :eek:
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I'm not either, and many of the guys on beechtalk drive me nuts with their philosophy of life being a contest to see who can spend the most money the fastest. It really does a disservice to the type, as it overshadows the fact that over the years they are the most economical planes to own.
 
JHW said:
I'm not either, and many of the guys on beechtalk drive me nuts with their philosophy of life being a contest to see who can spend the most money the fastest. It really does a disservice to the type, as it overshadows the fact that over the years they are the most economical planes to own.
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R&W chimes in, in 3...2...
 
Note from OSH: Everyone wearing a Bonanza shirt was over 6' 1". I started joking that it must be a requirement. ;)
 
Damn I need to buy some pumps for my shoes to be as tall as Bo owners :)

Hey Mike, do you plan to keep renting forever? You really might want to consider a partnership as much as you fly rather than giving away $$$ to flying clubs, just saying.

I'm not as famous or rich or good looking as Global former Gulfstream Girl and she's pretty infamous on the net.
 
230 hours over three years isn't that much flying, and I'm having a hard time seeing a partnership as cheaper, especially when my mission varies and you include ALL the costs, especially repair reserves.
 
docmirror said:
Jeez, gotta be something wrong there. S35 with a G430 and coupled STEC-50 for that price? I almost want to call to see if this is some kind of scam. That's a ton of plane for the price, and I have NO affiliation.
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Engine is mid-time and they don't have a good history of making TBO without a top overhaul. Other than that, looks pretty decent.
 
brian];1520011 said:
Too bad Ben is no longer on BeechTalk. Pretty good A35 over there for $25K. Yep, $25K for something that cruises at 140KTS on 10-11GPH MOGAS.
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Unfortunately, it is $24,999.99 overpriced according to him. At least he is consistent.
 
I don't understand the anti-broker hostility. Brokers do not "jack up the price" to the buyer, they "jack down" the proceeds remitted to the seller. The market determines the sales price, it's up to the seller to determine if he wants to deal with it himself or pay the broker to handle it.

I bought my Navion through a broker (Wisconsin Aviation) and have no regrets. Amusingly one day at Oshkosh I was standing at a friend's Navion waiting for him to return and this little old man walks up to me...

HIM: Is this your airplane?
ME: No, it belongs to a friend of mine. But I own an Navion as well.
HIM: I used to have a Navion, but I had to sell it a few years ago. (he pulls a picture out of his wallet).
ME: That's my Navion. You're Harry Deutch, aren't you?
HIM: Yes.
ME: I bought the plane from you.

Alas, that was when the plane was not there being in restoration from my engine failure. I did send him pictures of the restored aircraft when it came out of restoration.
 
airguy said:
Engine is mid-time and they don't have a good history of making TBO without a top overhaul. Other than that, looks pretty decent.
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Depends on how it's been run. A borescope look at the valves and piston tops will tell you what you need to know about how it's been run to make that determination. If you see a bunch of dry black, thick deposits, yeah, you're looking at a top. If you see thinner grey/tan deposits, there is room for optimism to TBO and beyond. One also wants to look for any pattern abnormalities in the shading of the deposits as well.
 
JHW said:
I'm not either, and many of the guys on beechtalk drive me nuts with their philosophy of life being a contest to see who can spend the most money the fastest. It really does a disservice to the type, as it overshadows the fact that over the years they are the most economical planes to own.
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Bonanzas have always been lavished on though, especially avionics. Lots of airline pilots owned Bonanzas and put really good packages in.
 
flyingron said:
HIM: Is this your airplane?
ME: No, it belongs to a friend of mine. But I own an Navion as well.
HIM: I used to have a Navion, but I had to sell it a few years ago. (he pulls a picture out of his wallet).
ME: That's my Navion. You're Harry Deutch, aren't you?
HIM: Yes.
ME: I bought the plane from you.

Alas, that was when the plane was not there being in restoration from my engine failure. I did send him pictures of the restored aircraft when it came out of restoration.
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The arms length distance a broker introduces often makes it easier for the older guys to sell a plane without getting their feelings hurt. The broker weeds out the tirekickers and lowballers. All the owner has to do is to cash his check.
 
I factor an IRAN jug or two per 1000 hours into the equation when I buy. It is what it is, and I won't deny the cost.
 
flyingron said:
I don't understand the anti-broker hostility. Brokers do not "jack up the price" to the buyer, they "jack down" the proceeds remitted to the seller. The market determines the sales price, it's up to the seller to determine if he wants to deal with it himself or pay the broker to handle it.

I bought my Navion through a broker (Wisconsin Aviation) and have no regrets. Amusingly one day at Oshkosh I was standing at a friend's Navion waiting for him to return and this little old man walks up to me...

HIM: Is this your airplane?
ME: No, it belongs to a friend of mine. But I own an Navion as well.
HIM: I used to have a Navion, but I had to sell it a few years ago. (he pulls a picture out of his wallet).
ME: That's my Navion. You're Harry Deutch, aren't you?
HIM: Yes.
ME: I bought the plane from you.

Alas, that was when the plane was not there being in restoration from my engine failure. I did send him pictures of the restored aircraft when it came out of restoration.
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I have seen a lot of brokers take the seller's asking price and add their commission. They always start way too high in hopes of catching a buyer. They do the sellers no justice IMHO. They seem to wait until the seller is desperate then drop the price to market value.
 
Just for giggles, I looked at a brokered airplane on Sun down in TX. The broker is representing a seller who presumably is serious about get rid of the plane. The plane was out on the ramp, the paint was oxidized to hell, the interior had junk in the back, and he didn't want to take off the cowl so I could see the engine bay. WTF? Ok, so you aren't interested in a sale, you just want to wait until someone sends a check by mail. His asking price was above market a bit. Oh well.
 
Geico266 said:
I have seen a lot of brokers take the seller's asking price and add their commission. They always start way too high in hopes of catching a buyer. They do the sellers no justice IMHO. They seem to wait until the seller is desperate then drop the price to market value.
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I'm sure there are brokers who behave that way but when I sold my Bonanza the broker and I worked together to set the offered price and counterpricing strategy. That discussion involved several recent examples and thoughts about the relationships between price, condition, and time to sell.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the majority of overpriced airplanes in the brokered market got that way because the owner went against the broker's advice and set the price higher than the broker recommended. IME, brokers (at least the good ones) tend to be pretty well aware of last month's market if not the current market and certainly more realistic about value than most owners.
 
gismo said:
I'm sure there are brokers who behave that way but when I sold my Bonanza the broker and I worked together to set the offered price and counterpricing strategy. That discussion involved several recent examples and thoughts about the relationships between price, condition, and time to sell.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the majority of overpriced airplanes in the brokered market got that way because the owner went against the broker's advice and set the price higher than the broker recommended. IME, brokers (at least the good ones) tend to be pretty well aware of last month's market if not the current market and certainly more realistic about value than most owners.
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I had a similar good experience with a broker. After no luck trying to sell it myself, I went with the broker. He aggressively marketed it and had serious buyers in short order. I got a fair price, they buyer got a good deal and the broker made a pretty modest commission...even foregoing some commission so as to make the deal happen.
 
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