Baltimore ADIZ

[Shipoke]

I just got a Email from AOPA ,it states that the Feds are trying to make the ADIZ permanent. AOPA is fighting this ,and for those who are not AOPA members if you would like to see this Email let me know and i will forward it to you.Email me at gaiski@comcast.net I am also trying to post it on the web board Thank You Dave Gaiski

 

[MSmith]

I have a question.

I agree that making the ADIZ permanent is a bad idea. I also agree that it is a "slippery slope" towards an ADIZ in all Class B airspaces.

The only question (and this is what's held me back thus far from filing a comment) is:
"Will my comment make any difference?"

It seems from past experience that our fraidy-cat government is going to do what it wants to regardless of what I have to say, either to them or to my elected representatives (who apparently don't like to run from office buildings).

 

[mgkdrgn]

Unfortunatly, the "comments" will go to the FAA, but the FAA isn't the one making the rules any more. They are just the "messenger", and the "message" only flows one way.

They are accepting the comments because the need to "follow the rules" wrt a NPRM. There ain't anything in the rules that says they have to read the comments they get.

And even if they did, as I said before, they aren't in charge anymore.

That said ... I will submit a comment. I expect it to be just as effective as the letters/emails/fax's I have sent to my elected representatives. The best I got from any of them was a form letter, not even on the topic.

I have a question.

I agree that making the ADIZ permanent is a bad idea. I also agree that it is a "slippery slope" towards an ADIZ in all Class B airspaces.

The only question (and this is what's held me back thus far from filing a comment) is:
"Will my comment make any difference?"

It seems from past experience that our fraidy-cat government is going to do what it wants to regardless of what I have to say, either to them or to my elected representatives (who apparently don't like to run from office buildings).

 

[wsuffa]

At the AOPA town meeting last night, Phil Boyer thinks we might have a 'chance' on this one, especially in the wake of the DHS issues in New Orleans.

You can expect AOPA to make a call for an all out congressional and FAA letter-writing campaign very soon.

 

[mgkdrgn]

For Phil to "take advantage" of DHS's current bad press, would be an uncharacteristic, but very welcome, move. Up until now, IMHO, it's been way to much "Mr Nice Guy" and not nearly enough "NRA".

Make no mistake, this is a =mortal= struggle for GA. If we loose this, GA in this country is dead, dead, dead.

At the AOPA town meeting last night, Phil Boyer thinks we might have a 'chance' on this one, especially in the wake of the DHS issues in New Orleans.

You can expect AOPA to make a call for an all out congressional and FAA letter-writing campaign very soon.

 

[wsuffa]

For Phil to "take advantage" of DHS's current bad press, would be an uncharacteristic, but very welcome, move. Up until now, IMHO, it's been way to much "Mr Nice Guy" and not nearly enough "NRA".

Make no mistake, this is a =mortal= struggle for GA. If we loose this, GA in this country is dead, dead, dead.

I told Phil that - on a personal note - I had considered upgrading to a more capable airplane, but given the recent full-court press against GA I had decided to not move forward. Why put out the extra money if you can't use the asset? Can't imagine that I'm alone.

 

[Anthony]

I told Phil that - on a personal note - I had considered upgrading to a more capable airplane, but given the recent full-court press against GA I had decided to not move forward. Why put out the extra money if you can't use the asset? Can't imagine that I'm alone.

Bill. I'm in the same boat, errr, plane. I am getting ready to either dump major $$$ into avionics upgrades into the Tiger or buy another plane already equipped. Fuel costs, gov't restrictions and general anti-GA environment is causing me to re-think this decision. I will probably just go ahead with one or the other, but it is causing me to delay. And I bought my second plane a few months after 9/11 when we didn't know if there would be GA or not, so my tolerance for risk is rather high.

 

[mikea]

For Phil to "take advantage" of DHS's current bad press, would be an uncharacteristic, but very welcome, move. Up until now, IMHO, it's been way to much "Mr Nice Guy" and not nearly enough "NRA".

Make no mistake, this is a =mortal= struggle for GA. If we loose this, GA in this country is dead, dead, dead.

He can also take advantage of GA's GOOD press. Angel Flight Southeast and other volunteer pilot organization busted their tails and made a terrific contribution aiding the Katrina recovery. He could make the point that 90% of airports aren't served by airlines. A lot of rural areas in the gulf are glad they had a GA airport nearby.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Well, mine is "on the block" right now ... living in the DC ADIZ. The idea of facing a $100K fine and 5 years because my transponder decides to give up the ghost at a bad moment is enough incentive to get me out. I'll be showing my PA28-180D to a prospective buyer in about 30 minutes.

I told Phil that - on a personal note - I had considered upgrading to a more capable airplane, but given the recent full-court press against GA I had decided to not move forward. Why put out the extra money if you can't use the asset? Can't imagine that I'm alone.

 

[wsuffa]

Well, mine is "on the block" right now ... living in the DC ADIZ. The idea of facing a $100K fine and 5 years because my transponder decides to give up the ghost at a bad moment is enough incentive to get me out. I'll be showing my PA28-180D to a prospective buyer in about 30 minutes.

You might drop Phil a note and let him know why. He seemed shocked that anyone might give up an airplane or delay a purchase because of this stuff.

 

[silver-eagle]

You might drop Phil a note and let him know why. He seemed shocked that anyone might give up an airplane or delay a purchase because of this stuff.

That almost sounds like a "head in the sand" approach. Daily, we're assaulted with TFRs, NOTAMs, various noise procedures, and communities calling for the closing of their local GA airports. How could someone think we're comfortable spending large dollar amounts in that climate.
Were I in or near the Washington ADIZ, I'd be nervous about it also. More to the point, I'm concerned that some congressperson may actually get a penalty bill for class B airspaces passed.
Gee wizz, it's time for the heavy guns.

 

[wsuffa]

That almost sounds like a "head in the sand" approach. Daily, we're assaulted with TFRs, NOTAMs, various noise procedures, and communities calling for the closing of their local GA airports. How could someone think we're comfortable spending large dollar amounts in that climate.
Were I in or near the Washington ADIZ, I'd be nervous about it also. More to the point, I'm concerned that some congressperson may actually get a penalty bill for class B airspaces passed.
Gee wizz, it's time for the heavy guns.

No, I think Phil realizes it's a real problem for GA.

I just don't think he expected that pilots would sell their planes because of it.

As I explained to him, why lay out a lot of cash for a new airplane if it would be worthless or unusable at some point.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I've had several email exchanges with Phil on this subject. I was even the subject of one of his "from the president" articles in the AOPA mag two summers ago. (remember the story about the pilot who had to cancle his several years in the planning flying vacation to Key West at the last minute because of the possibility that the ADIZ would be closed upon his return ... unable to return home? that was me).

Hence, I don't understand how this type of development could suprise him.

Of course, FDK isn't in inside the ADIZ, but W18 (Laurel Suburban) is.

Few years ago there were 90 airplanes based there ... and there were nearly ALWAYS planes in the pattern on the weekend.

Now there are maybe 20, 25. I was there for nearly 3 hours today, showing my plane and doing some cleanup in the hangar. Beautiful as good as it gets VFR day here on the east coast.

I didn't see, or hear a single plane the whole time I was there.

No, I think Phil realizes it's a real problem for GA.

I just don't think he expected that pilots would sell their planes because of it.

As I explained to him, why lay out a lot of cash for a new airplane if it would be worthless or unusable at some point.

 

[Shipoke]

well Brett, i live in Harrisburg Pa. and the thought of getting close to the ADIZ scares the hell out of me,so i just dont fly that way.I understand your reasoning behind sell you plane. I've noticed that the flights around here have been slim too.We have the ADIZ to the south,and Indiantown Gap Military Reservation to the North -East. So you can see we dont have it easy either. Hope things work out for you and you dont give up flying Dave G

 

[MSmith]

I'm actually holding back on Instrument training to see how this pans out. My home airport is inside the Philly 20NM ring but with the modified airspace it's outside of Class B (Philly Class B is flat on the east side to allow a corridor between Philly Class B and the McGuire Alert area).

If they start doing ADIZ's I'd assume that they'd do the entire PHL 20NM ring rather than just the current Class B boundaries.

I guess I'm not sufficiently "hard core" to fight against the loss of aviation. It's still a weekend hobby for me - I could give it up if it becomes too difficult or expensive.

I have a feeling that I'll take criticism from some for not being sufficiently activist about it, but that's the way it is.

 

[MSmith]

In case anybody was wondering, I did file my comments over the weekend. I only received the AOPA mailing on Saturday.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/

I received a "National Pilot Alert" From AOPA a few days ago. I submitted my comments to the FAA and later to my congressman. It's well worth the 30 minutes.

...and for those of you who think you can't do it...If a high school student can do it, you can too

 

[woodstock]

You might drop Phil a note and let him know why. He seemed shocked that anyone might give up an airplane or delay a purchase because of this stuff.

that, and gas prices, are the main reasons I've decided against buying anything to leaseback this year. I'm going to sit tight and just watch to see what happens.

 

[EdFred]

I put my comments on the FAA site, and e-mailed my congresscritters as well.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

what is that quote?.... something about 'those who are willing to give up their liberty in exchange for security deserve neither.... '
and would it be appropriate here? I might use it in my submission if it sounds right.

 

[EdFred]

what is that quote?.... something about 'those who are willing to give up their liberty in exchange for security deserve neither.... '
and would it be appropriate here? I might use it in my submission if it sounds right.

I know the quote you are talking about but don't know the quote exactly. I'm pretty sure it was Ben Franklin who said dit.

 

[Ken Ibold]

I know the quote you are talking about but don't know the quote exactly. I'm pretty sure it was Ben Franklin who said dit.

Yup, Ben's the man.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Comments/letters/one line sentences WORKED out here last year in Pac NW to drastically reduce size of 3 TFRs to almost nothing ! That way, it looks like the govmint is really on top of things so they save face, while not being such a huge inconvenience to pilots as massive airspace restrictions.

We had maybe a good 500 letters which is relatively huge in comparision to the letters now on the ADIZ site, considering the vast difference in population densities of the two areas. Saw some familiar names there though...

For direct link: http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm

 

[ScottM]

In addition to the comments on the NPRM and the letters to the Cogress-critters. Do the following to really get some attention. When your elevted official has a town hall show up and raise the issue, call the local office and set up an appointment with one the congress critters aides to raise your issue and discuss, lastly when in Washington DC attend you reps legislative breakfasts and raise the issue. You would be surprised at how much better you will be heard! I lobbied on the hill for veterans rights for the VFW and this is the best way to make sure your issue stays on their agendas and memories.

Scott