Aviation Aggravations

AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
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Montgomery County PA
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Display name:
Adam Zucker
What really drives you nuts about aviation could be a pilot habit, type of radio call ie " with you " of the dread of EdFred " any traffic in the pattern..." Could be young, time hungry CFI syndrome having 13+ sumps on a cessna, anything.

One thing that drives me crazy is when ATC calls out traffic and I hear some bozo say 12XY has traffic on the TIS or TCAS. I want to scream over the airwaves NO YOU DON'T!!!:mad3: not unitl his metal glints in your eyes you don't.
 
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Re: Aviation Aggrivations

AdamZ said:
One thing that drives me crazy is when ATC calls out traffic and I hear some bozo say 12XY has traffic on the TIS or TCAS. I want to scream over the airwaves NO YOU DON'T!!!:mad3: not unitl his meatal glints in your eyes you don't.
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He doesn't have the traffic on TIS or TCAS until he has the traffic visually? How can that be?
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Well, I don't trust TIS, but TCAS is like having your own ATC radar - it actively interrogates the surrounding space in real time, so what you see in the cockpit is MUCH closer to what ATC sees.

So I think "not in sight, on TCAS" is a valid reply, it tells ATC you're looking, you haven't seen them, but your TCAS system is painting a target that appears to match. Since you will have to follow your TCAS resolution advisory if you don't have them in sight, ATC is alerted that you might climb or descend unexpectedly.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

What bothers me is when people clearly have not thought about what they said before they key the PTT button. Generally these people are VFR pilots calling up flight following, and tell their life story. I was taught to make it short and sweet, then clear up the frequency for someone else to use.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

I don't like that either but it is number three on my aggravations of traffic calls. Number two is "I have it on the fish finder." Geesh! what are you trolling for planes? Put the long net away and start looking for the traffic.

But the number one has got to be when they see at say "Tally Ho!" A bunch of fighter pilot wannabes if you ask me. I think it makes the pilot sound like a moron.

Any one 'with me' on those?
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

TMetzinger said:
Well, I don't trust TIS, but TCAS is like having your own ATC radar - it actively interrogates the surrounding space in real time, so what you see in the cockpit is MUCH closer to what ATC sees.
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Of course, ATC might be reporting a primary return, and in that case you will not have it on TCAS. In fact, you might think you have it on TCAS when in reality the aircraft they're informing you about is much closer and just a primary return.

Normally they will tell you if the conflicting traffic is just a primary return or not.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

TMetzinger said:
Well, I don't trust TIS, but TCAS is like having your own ATC radar - it actively interrogates the surrounding space in real time, so what you see in the cockpit is MUCH closer to what ATC sees.

So I think "not in sight, on TCAS" is a valid reply, it tells ATC you're looking, you haven't seen them, but your TCAS system is painting a target that appears to match. Since you will have to follow your TCAS resolution advisory if you don't have them in sight, ATC is alerted that you might climb or descend unexpectedly.
Click to expand...

But thats not what I hear Tim. They just say they have traffic on the box. Perhaps I've got it wrong but I really think ya need to see the traffic in order to let ATC know ' you have ' traffic.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

I am aggravated by pilots who get aggravated at other pilots' radio technique. :)
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

smigaldi said:
But the number one has got to be when they see at say "Tally Ho!" A bunch of fighter pilot wannabes if you ask me. I think it makes the pilot sound like a moron.

Any one 'with me' on those?
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Yea, it get's old really fast. Same with the guys that insist on calling themselves "Captain" even though they've never really earned the title. :frown2:
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

jesse said:
Of course, ATC might be reporting a primary return, and in that case you will not have it on TCAS. In fact, you might think you have it on TCAS when in reality the aircraft they're informing you about is much closer and just a primary return.
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But ATC will issue the distance to the target they're alerting you to. Since that distance is much closer than what you're showing on TCAS you know it's a different target.

Normally they will tell you if the conflicting traffic is just a primary return or not.
Click to expand...

Zackly.
 
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Re: Aviation Aggrivations

AdamZ said:
But thats not what I hear Tim. They just say they have traffic on the box. Perhaps I've got it wrong but I really think ya need to see the traffic in order to let ATC know ' you have ' traffic.
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That's true if visual separation is to be used, but practically speaking only then.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

The overuse of TLAs and FLAs.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

smigaldi said:
But the number one has got to be when they see at say "Tally Ho!" A bunch of fighter pilot wannabes if you ask me. I think it makes the pilot sound like a moron.
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I've only heard that from one pilot. He actually flew in the military.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

TMetzinger said:
Well, I don't trust TIS, but TCAS is like having your own ATC radar - it actively interrogates the surrounding space in real time, so what you see in the cockpit is MUCH closer to what ATC sees.

So I think "not in sight, on TCAS" is a valid reply, it tells ATC you're looking, you haven't seen them, but your TCAS system is painting a target that appears to match. Since you will have to follow your TCAS resolution advisory if you don't have them in sight, ATC is alerted that you might climb or descend unexpectedly.
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"Not in sight, on TCAS" could be interpreted as you don't see the traffic on your TCAS.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

My personal favorite is the guy stumbling on the radio making a 4 minute traffic all an an uncontrolled airfield, preferably with a bad foreign airfield on a saturday morning. The other is loacl pilots calling in position reports like "over the walmart" instead of 3 miles west etc. I realize that for locals it has probably better value that a 3 mile call, but if you are not familliar with the area it can be aggavating
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Coyotes after dark. Never see 'em on the road, but I've aborted a few TO's for them. Makes me think I'm doing the gene pool a dis-service.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

"Fairmont traffic, Cessna xxxxx is 10 miles to the southeast, passing overhead southeast to northwest at 5500, Fairmont." (KFRM is at 1162 MSL.)
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

jmaynard said:
"Fairmont traffic, Cessna xxxxx is 10 miles to the southeast, passing overhead southeast to northwest at 5500, Fairmont." (KFRM is at 1162 MSL.)
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ad-hoc flight following. What's wrong with that?
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Standard for us is even if we have the traffic on TCAS, we tell ATC we are "searching" and then report traffic in sight when they are actually in sight.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Not being around in GA long, I find that one thing that aggrivates me is the position reports when people use local landmarks rather than their position in the pattern. If flying on an XC, I don't know the local lingo and I'm looking all over the place.

Also,.. you IR guys,... sometimes it's nice to know that you are not just XXXXX inbound for 28,... but XXXXX inbound for 28, 5 mile straight in or something that us VFR guys know what's going on. not that aggrivating, just sometimes uncomforting not knowing exactly how much time I have in the pattern or where you are comming from.

I'm sure others will come with time, but I'm generally relaxed about most things. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

All planes that are inferior to the Grumman Tiger, including ANYTHING that Ed Fred flies.


:D
 
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Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Wow... I just realized I haven't been aggravated by anything aviation-related in a long time, except for not being able to fly for whatever reason. :smile:

I do plenty of eye-rolling and head-shaking, for sure, but even silly radio calls don't actually annoy me unless I'm trying to make a call or listen at a critical moment and somebody's cluttering up the freq with nonsense.

Back to my original point: I've been frequenting the aiport a lot since July, and I'm pretty impressed with the average level of competence, courtesy, and common sense I've seen. We get a lot of visitors at 47N for fuel, and even they are not annoying, generally.

The worst I've seen or heard lately is just the usual newbie stuff, and that is usually defused by the more experienced pilots being alert... and patient. :D
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

I'm aggravated by a particular G58 pilot who does run-up while parked on the ramp with other aircraft parked right behind him then calls for taxi while another aircraft is properly positioned to taxi out, while the Baron is yet in its tie-down spot.

While that's enough... I'm sure I could name a few more "whiles."
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Everskyward said:
I am aggravated by pilots who get aggravated at other pilots' radio technique. :)
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Bingo! I just like to fly and listen to XM radio, not other pilots talking to ATC. :frown2: A little acro, a few rolls, tight turns, a hammerhead or two, pull 2.5 g's, time to land with a smile and an adjusted attitude.
 
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Re: Aviation Aggrivations

jmaynard said:
"Fairmont traffic, Cessna xxxxx is 10 miles to the southeast, passing overhead southeast to northwest at 5500, Fairmont." (KFRM is at 1162 MSL.)
Click to expand...

I think it's a good idea, and I hate to admit I've done it, but only if within 1000 feet of the pattern altitude. :rolleyes:

The idea being you tell arriving or departing planes you're nearby.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

mikea said:
I think it's a good idea, and I hate to admit I've done it, but only if within 1000 feet of the pattern altitude. :rolleyes:

The idea being you tell arriving or departing planes you're nearby.
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I've got no problem with people doing it at or near pattern altitude. 4000 AGL, however, is another story.
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

OH, I just thought of one. Sometimes people start their airplanes up at OSH while still in the row of campers and they blow people's tents and stuff all over. Why can't they push them out first and start the airplanes where they won't blow stuff all over? :confused:

OH, and another one. Sometimes people don't offer me a ride in their airplanes. ;)
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

jmaynard said:
On 122.8? Nobody's in a position to do anything when he disappears, or even know if he has.
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OK, smart guy. It's not "flight following" but it can be a useful advisory (again, if the plane will be in reach of the airport traffic.)
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

Pilots that pull up to the self service pump, get out, saunter into the FBO, use the bathroom, read a magazine, check the weather, return to the plane, fuel up, preflight, decide to pay the bill in cash, walk back to the FBO, return, start up, check the radio, get their clearance (via snail mail) then pull 50 feet away and shut down!!! Grrrr!!

Gary
 
Re: Aviation Aggrivations

A particular tower controller that calls traffic for *everyone* even with 4 or 5 in the pattern, several more inbound. He just keeps talking and talking and talking which doesn't leave much time for any pilot to get a word in edge-wise.
 
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