Autopilots

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
12,332
How important are they. I have NEVER flown with an autopilot so i don't know what I'm missing. Must have? Nice to have? Who cares?
 
Due to the relatively insignificant cost, I consider them as essential, especially for single-pilot IFR. And not because I need them, but because I want them.

bartmc said:
How important are they. I have NEVER flown with an autopilot so i don't know what I'm missing. Must have? Nice to have? Who cares?
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If you fly long trips, or in IMC a lot, an autopilot is a very big help. Like Wayne, I consider them a piece of safety equipment. I will not fly passengers in IMC without one.
 
What are you going to be doing? Short hop around the pattern or flying for 10hrs straight?
 
Depends on the airplane and how tough the IMC is.

I spent the money on a wing-leveler for my cherokee 140. Nice to have on a 4 hour flight in the clouds, but not essential in my 140. And not at all needed on VFR flights.

What kind of airplane do you have and what kind of flying?

edit: having test flown a Lancair Super ES, I wouldn't hand fly that airplane XC even in VMC. That airplane practically screams to have an autopilot.
 
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2500+ less than 25 with an AP, they make me go 'meh' but I'll probably put one in the 310 eventually but I'll have an amphib E-LSA first since they're the same price. I'll open SVT and upgrade to the 750 shortly though. I had a feeling they were close to a new product release but I wanted a WAAS GPS and a G-500 so I did it as affordably as I could manage. I might make you a deal on a 430W for Christmas. Learn to fly the plane VFR first. Be very selective flying your first winter, the music died in an old Bonanza in a snowstorm, so there is precedent for caution, although in hauling a dirty airframe, horsepower is your friend.
 
Found the Bonanza I want, panel is a little mehhh and it's missing and autopilot but everything else seems right. Eventually, I'd like to put a 430W or better in it.
 
You want a 750, I was annoyed to have to buy a 430W. I know how to use it, I know I think it's poor. The 750 does away with all that. Eventually I may figure out a way to have a G-300 on the right with another 750 and engines in the middle so I can get rid of vacuum for deice or stby alternators on the same drive.
 
Henning said:
You want a 750, I was annoyed to have to buy a 430W. I know how to use it, I know I think it's poor. The 750 does away with all that. Eventually I may figure out a way to have a G-300 on the right with another 750 and engines in the middle so I can get rid of vacuum for deice or stby alternators on the same drive.
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I'm pressin' my budget for a solid airframe and engine I want right now. I've figured out that I'm going to have to concede something. This one is a P has the 260HP IO-470N in it and the new engine was just hung on it a few months back. Has a standard layout gauge cluster but no A/P and minimal radio stack.
 
Depends where you're flying. Required for RVSM certification.

Single pilot IFR is one of the highest workload things you can do in an airplane. Flying the airplane through the autopilot can help manage a high workload without sacrificing situational awareness. It can enhance SA, too.
 
For the IFR flying most of us here do (light singles, medium length trips, moderate weather), it's very nice to have but not essential, and you'd best be able to fly without it, at least long enough to get on the ground in the worst weather and busiest airspace in which you'll fly. Flying turbine equipment all day long in every weather imaginable, it's a virtual (and in some cases regulatory) necessity.
 
bartmc said:
I'm pressin' my budget for a solid airframe and engine I want right now. I've figured out that I'm going to have to concede something. This one is a P has the 260HP IO-470N in it and the new engine was just hung on it a few months back. Has a standard layout gauge cluster but no A/P and minimal radio stack.
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If you've never flown with one before then there will be nothing for you to "miss". :idea:

I think autopilots are unnecessary for VFR but nice for IFR. They can be finicky and hard to get into adjustment, though, which is another expense to consider.
 
I'll be finishing up my IR in it, then maybe dusting through a thin layer and back down every down and then, I don't see myself flying in IMC for hours then flying an approach to minimums for a very long time. Radios/Avionics seem pricey but it seems if I want an A/P I should buy one with it already installed.
 
DouglasBader said:
Depends where you're flying. Required for RVSM certification.

Single pilot IFR is one of the highest workload things you can do in an airplane. Flying the airplane through the autopilot can help manage a high workload without sacrificing situational awareness. It can enhance SA, too.
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True, I choose to tackle the problem from the information side with SVT.
 
For the IFR flying most of us here do (light singles, medium length trips, moderate weather), it's very nice to have but not essential, and you'd best be able to fly without it, at least long enough to get on the ground in the worst weather and busiest airspace in which you'll fly. Flying turbine equipment all day long in every weather imaginable, it's a virtual (and in some cases regulatory) necessity.
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If you're flying turbine equipment all day long in every weather imaginable, it's a virtual necessity that you'd best be able to fly without it too, at least long enough to get on the ground in the worst weather and busiest airspace in which you'll fly.
 
Very handy if you are working on your mile high club membership, or if you are already a member, solidifying your position in the club. I understand it is also great to have when IFR. :D

-John
 
I think that's true with any improvement, upgrade or modification. The first guy pays retail, all subsequent owners pay only a fraction.

bartmc said:
I'll be finishing up my IR in it, then maybe dusting through a thin layer and back down every down and then, I don't see myself flying in IMC for hours then flying an approach to minimums for a very long time. Radios/Avionics seem pricey but it seems if I want an A/P I should buy one with it already installed.
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bartmc said:
I'll be finishing up my IR in it, then maybe dusting through a thin layer and back down every down and then, I don't see myself flying in IMC for hours then flying an approach to minimums for a very long time. Radios/Avionics seem pricey but it seems if I want an A/P I should buy one with it already installed.
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I think that if that's all the IFR you are going to do you will be fine without an autopilot. But, if you decide you want one, I think it's best to find one already installed (and working).
 
wabower said:
I think that's true with any improvement, upgrade or modification. The first guy pays retail, all subsequent owners pay only a fraction.
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I'd be infinitely happy with a GNS430W but apparently some sellers believe that a GNS430 makes up for their engine that is 500hrs past TBO.

Found what appears to be the plane I want, 18 hrs on a recent factory new engine, Paint and Interior looks good, he's swearing it has no corrosion and is sure enough of it, that he's going to fly it 1200 miles to me to look at. It's only a GPS shy of meeting all my requirements and doesn't have an A/P which I don't even know if I want. Owner is an airline pilot and said he doesn't fly single engine pistons IFR so he never bothered to spruce up the panel. Has a KN64,KX155 and a KY197 in it now, that should be enough get me by.
 
How long have you been looking? Patience is your friend when looking for airplanes. Finding one in anything less than a year is mostly luck.

bartmc said:
I'd be infinitely happy with a GNS430W but apparently some sellers believe that a GNS430 makes up for their engine that is 500hrs past TBO.

Found what appears to be the plane I want, 18 hrs on a recent factory new engine, Paint and Interior looks good, he's swearing it has no corrosion and is sure enough of it, that he's going to fly it 1200 miles to me to look at. It's only a GPS shy of meeting all my requirements and doesn't have an A/P which I don't even know if I want. Owner is an airline pilot and said he doesn't fly single engine pistons IFR so he never bothered to spruce up the panel. Has a KN64,KX155 and a KY197 in it now, that should be enough get me by.
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wabower said:
How long have you been looking? Patience is your friend when looking for airplanes. Finding one in anything less than a year is mostly luck.
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Off and on for a year, Obsessing over it, 4 months, then had what I thought was a sealed deal and sold my plane now I'm AOG. This one is 5K less than what I was willing to pay for an exact replica with a 430 in it, I figure finding a 50 year old solid airframe and engine is harder than finding a GPS so I'm going to snatch it if it is as advertised. I'm not sure how the engine couldn't be it's 18hrs since a factory overhaul a few months ago, unless someone forgot to put oil in it or something. Owner's willing to fly it up here to me. So far the numbers and the logs look right, and the owner had the correct answer for all my questions. I figured I could deal with adding a 430W in the not so distant future, an autopilot, I'll just have to live without.
 
430's will only get cheaper as new stuff becomes available.

bartmc said:
Off and on for a year, Obsessing over it, 4 months, then had what I thought was a sealed deal and sold my plane now I'm AOG. This one is 5K less than what I was willing to pay for an exact replica with a 430 in it, I figure finding a 50 year old solid airframe and engine is harder than finding a GPS so I'm going to snatch it if it is as advertised. I'm not sure how the engine couldn't be it's 18hrs since a factory overhaul a few months ago, unless someone forgot to put oil in it or something. Owner's willing to fly it up here to me. So far the numbers and the logs look right, and the owner had the correct answer for all my questions. I figured I could deal with adding a 430W in the not so distant future, an autopilot, I'll just have to live without.
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I have two airplanes with autopilots and I use them alot. Enjoy them alot. Not essential but If they didn't work now i would have them fixed. I fly quite a few 4 to 8 hour trips so Really helps on fatigue.
 
Any type of long distance travel is nice with an autopilot. They just help with the work load.
 
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If you've only ridden a bicycle, a car seems like such an un-needed luxury. My AP is loved and used all the time... keeps me at the exact altitude and on-track when traversing busy airspace, gives me more time to check the instruments and scan for traffic, let's me move around and unkink my legs/arms/back, and gives me a break in bumpy air. All those things could be considered safety items, but having something that could take over if I'm incapacitated is the biggest safety thing for me. Heart attack, or fainting, or some bad Tacos.... sure makes the wife feel safer.
 
It sure makes those "got an amended clearance for you, advise when ready to copy" situations when you're bouncing around IMC a lot easier to deal with. The real crime is the price to install one in a certified aircraft.
 
bartmc said:
I'd be infinitely happy with a GNS430W but apparently some sellers believe that a GNS430 makes up for their engine that is 500hrs past TBO.

Found what appears to be the plane I want, 18 hrs on a recent factory new engine, Paint and Interior looks good, he's swearing it has no corrosion and is sure enough of it, that he's going to fly it 1200 miles to me to look at. It's only a GPS shy of meeting all my requirements and doesn't have an A/P which I don't even know if I want. Owner is an airline pilot and said he doesn't fly single engine pistons IFR so he never bothered to spruce up the panel. Has a KN64,KX155 and a KY197 in it now, that should be enough get me by.
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I don't know your experience level but if you plan to fly single pilot IFR in a Bonanza, I strongly recommend a wing leveler at the very least, and it probably should be a higher priority than a WAAS IRF GPS. Flying visually, an autopilot is pretty much just a convenience but when you need to process a significant re-route and/or work out some alternatives when dealing with weather an autopilot is awfully nice to have, especially in an airplane like a Bonanza which while a delight to hand fly is not particularly stable. Unlike most Cessnas they're definitely not capable of maintaining bank, heading, or even altitude for long hands off and history has shown that it's fairly easy to lose control and damage the airplane if you're not paying close attention. That's not to say you can't or shouldn't fly SPIFR without an autopilot in a Bonanza, just that it's a lot more demanding and less forgiving that some other airplanes.
 
gismo said:
I don't know your experience level but if you plan to fly single pilot IFR in a Bonanza, I strongly recommend a wing leveler at the very least, and it probably should be a higher priority than a WAAS IRF GPS. Flying visually, an autopilot is pretty much just a convenience but when you need to process a significant re-route and/or work out some alternatives when dealing with weather an autopilot is awfully nice to have, especially in an airplane like a Bonanza which while a delight to hand fly is not particularly stable. Unlike most Cessnas they're definitely not capable of maintaining bank, heading, or even altitude for long hands off and history has shown that it's fairly easy to lose control and damage the airplane if you're not paying close attention. That's not to say you can't or shouldn't fly SPIFR without an autopilot in a Bonanza, just that it's a lot more demanding and less forgiving that some other airplanes.
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:yeahthat:
 
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