Attn: Audio / recording Nerds

[SixPapaCharlie]

So I need a little education about how audio works where volume is concerned.

If I have two songs that are both mastered to the brink of distortion but not there yet. No more room in the wave.

1. One sounds significantly quieter than the other
2. There are clear differences in volume in portions of a single song but the wave shows no dip.

What is the difference in a wave being full versus the audible volume I hear?

I am having trouble understanding how what I actually hear is different than what I see in the wave.

Does this make sense?

I got something back from master and there was a section that was too quite and I thought I would boost that section a couple db but there is no room in the mix.

 

[paflyer]

So I need a little education about how audio works where volume is concerned.

If I have two songs that are both mastered to the brink of distortion but not there yet. No more room in the wave.

1. One sounds significantly quieter than the other
2. There are clear differences in volume in portions of a single song but the wave shows no dip.

What is the difference in a wave being full versus the audible volume I hear?

I am having trouble understanding how what I actually hear is different than what I see in the wave.

Does this make sense?

I got something back from master and there was a section that was too quite and I thought I would boost that section a couple db but there is no room in the mix.

What do you mean by the "wave being full"?

Was this professionally mastered?

 

[TFulwider]

There can be a huge difference in perceived loudness and actual db loudness. If you have a track with only a few instruments you can max out the wav to the point of clipping and it will still sound quieter than a track with larger instrumentation. You can also run into this issue when you have a certain frequency loaded up heavy (usually mid to low). Is this a track you recorded yourself?

 

[paflyer]

There can be a huge difference in perceived loudness and actual db loudness. If you have a track with only a few instruments you can max out the wav to the point of clipping and it will still sound quieter than a track with larger instrumentation. You can also run into this issue when you have a certain frequency loaded up heavy (usually mid to low). Is this a track you recorded yourself?

Right, it's called "spectrum."

 

[write-stuff]

The distortion is likely caused by clipping.

 

[flyingron]

One man's distrortion is another man's compression. Most stuff isn't driven into clipping but certainly back in the days I was doing FM broadcasting we had some very sophisticated stuff to make the programming sound "Louder." Good ol' Orban Optimod and other devices. Our AM station used a cruder dBX compressor.

 

[paflyer]

Compression shouldn't cause distortion. In fact, compression should help prevent it.

 

[flyingron]

Compression shouldn't cause distortion. In fact, compression should help prevent it.

Compression is DISTORTION. Any alteration of the signal is technically distortion. It's just palatable distortion.

 

[paflyer]

Compression is DISTORTION. Any alteration of the signal is technically distortion. It's just palatable distortion.

It's not HARMONIC distortion. It is AMPLITUDE distortion, which is certainly less audible.

 

[write-stuff]

Compression is not "distortion" in the conventional sense. And clipping can happen now just as easily as ever. Anything can be "driven into clipping". One of the benefits of compression is that it attenuates clipping.

 

[flyingron]

It's not HARMONIC distortion. It is AMPLITUDE distortion, which is certainly less audible.

Well that's still wrong. If it isn't a linear function it's going to introduce a harmonic component. Basic signal processing.

 

[paflyer]

Well that's still wrong. If it isn't a linear function it's going to introduce a harmonic component. Basic signal processing.

If you manually raise and lower the volume on your stereo are you introducing harmonic distortion?

 

[exncsurfer]

6PC, sounds like you need compression on the section in question. You want the middle of the wave form to be increased while the outer parts are not. Those peaks you see can be very brief and depending on the frequency may not even be audible. You could actually have a compressed section that looks 'smaller' from the wave peak view that is actually louder when you listen.

You probably just need to tell this to whoever did the work and have them redo it.

then again, i'm no expert

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

So look at the file.
This is a full song Mastered "professionally"

You can laugh: I outsourced the mixing / mastering to a studio in Serbia and they have done a great job.

Why Serbia? Because I am a really cheap bastard and I outsource just about everything I can.

Ok, look at the wave. It looks like it would be pretty much the same volume from soup to nuts but the highlighted section (to my ears) is 3/4 as loud as the rest. How is it possible that the wave appears maxed out but the volume is percieved as significantly different?

 

[ollopa]

Protip: Share the actual file, not a zoomed-out screenshot of low-detail average information...

Perhaps they mixed multiple instrument tracks into your two stereo tracks there and one of the instruments is dominating the envelope while the one you're trying to listen to has been mixed in with low amplitude over that portion. No one can tell from your screenshot which merely shows the envelope in low detail.

 

[paflyer]

So look at the file.
This is a full song Mastered "professionally"

You can laugh: I outsourced the mixing / mastering to a studio in Serbia and they have done a great job.

Why Serbia? Because I am a really cheap bastard and I outsource just about everything I can.

Ok, look at the wave. It looks like it would be pretty much the same volume from soup to nuts but the highlighted section (to my ears) is 3/4 as loud as the rest. How is it possible that the wave appears maxed out but the volume is percieved as significantly different?

Post .wav snips, you can't judge what something sounds like by posting pictures. Is that showing the audio file slammed FS at all times?

BTW, next time hire some local mix engineer and send your tunes to Bob Ludwig for mastering. Buy American!

 

[Fluffy Bunny Airlines]

The difference you are hearing is probably in the elimination of dynamic range. If everything is squashed to death make everything loud, there's a point of diminishing returns. Audio mastered less loud with the dynamic range protected can sound louder, more full...bigger, warmer.

I second Bob Ludwig or Bob Katz...well, at least someone named Bob.

 

[exncsurfer]

So look at the file.
This is a full song Mastered "professionally"

You can laugh: I outsourced the mixing / mastering to a studio in Serbia and they have done a great job.

Why Serbia? Because I am a really cheap bastard and I outsource just about everything I can.

Ok, look at the wave. It looks like it would be pretty much the same volume from soup to nuts but the highlighted section (to my ears) is 3/4 as loud as the rest. How is it possible that the wave appears maxed out but the volume is percieved as significantly different?

This is akin to looking at the grooves on a record from across the street with binoculars out of focus and trying to figure out what it sounds like.

Is there a problem with how it sounds, or are you just curious how it can look that way? That whole wave looks over compressed, but even that could just be due to the zoomed out view you have there.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

This is akin to looking at the grooves on a record from across the street with binoculars out of focus and trying to figure out what it sounds like.

Is there a problem with how it sounds, or are you just curious how it can look that way? That whole wave looks over compressed, but even that could just be due to the zoomed out view you have there.

No the question has nothing to do w/ determining how it sounds.

What I don't get is how the file can be so static / consistent (visual representation) yet the actual volume appears to change when listening.

If there is a dip in the audible volume, I would expect there to be a dip in the visual representation of the wave

 

[exncsurfer]

No the question has nothing to do w/ determining how it sounds.

What I don't get is how the file can be so static / consistent (visual representation) yet the actual volume appears to change when listening.

If there is a dip in the audible volume, I would expect there to be a dip in the visual representation of the wave

There might be if you zoom in far enough. Does this volume drop not sound natural? Or is that not relevant to your question.

 

[paflyer]

No the question has nothing to do w/ determining how it sounds.

What I don't get is how the file can be so static / consistent (visual representation) yet the actual volume appears to change when listening.

If there is a dip in the audible volume, I would expect there to be a dip in the visual representation of the wave

Try changing the scale, looks like you're "zoomed in" so you're not seeing the envelope of the audio.