ATP single oral

taters

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Taters
I have my initial ATP check ride on Thurs with a DPE. (United captain)
I will take the ride in the company A-36TC and hope to follow up with the multi soon in a light twin or maybe in a C510w/type. Being that the single-engine ATP is sort of a rare bird, I really dont have much to go on in terms of the oral beyond the PTS. Most folks get the ATP in a sim along with a type, so most orals are systems related. Just wondering how it went for folks who have done it this way.

Will be sure to provide a write up after the ride.
 
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I did a combination oral for my ATP 15 years ago. It pretty much focused on the light twin for the AMEL part, but he asked a few questions about the systems and numbers for the Cheetah we used for the ASEL portion, one of which sticks in my mind -- best engine-out glide speed. That said, the ATP oral is relatively simple, since the Preflight Preparation ("ground oral") section is so limited in scope compared to that for Pvt, IR, Comm, and especially CFI practical tests (see the ATP PTS). I mean, just how many systems questions can they ask about an AA-5A, and how hard is it to cover takeoff performance, W&B, etc for a simple single? I think we spent less than 10 minutes on the ASEL part of the oral.
 
Think clearways, climb gradients, V2, Hazmat, etc.
The oral is the same as for the ME ATP. That's why the add on is only a ride for ME.
 
I have my initial ATP check ride on Thurs with a DPE. (United captain)

Out of curiosity, which United Captain?

I will eventually do a SE ATP. But it will be in addition to the ME ATP I already have. I wonder what the oral will be like on THAT.
 
Out of curiosity, Greg, why would you add-on a SE ATP? I understand an initial SE ATP, for economics, but why add-on? There is no existing job requirement for a SE ATP, is there?
 
Bertil Aagesen Omaha, NE
 
Out of curiosity, Greg, why would you add-on a SE ATP? I understand an initial SE ATP, for economics, but why add-on? There is no existing job requirement for a SE ATP, is there?

Well, it is just something to do. And yes, I do believe there are some jobs that require a SE ATP, but as of right now, I can't point you to any.
 
I will eventually do a SE ATP. But it will be in addition to the ME ATP I already have. I wonder what the oral will be like on THAT.

I can hear it now: "So why, Greg, does the Cessna 195 use so much oil?"

I'm thinkin' that's enough of a system's question...:cornut:

Of course this jab in the ribs is from someone whose newly purchased Dakota expended one quart per hour and marked it's spot rather firmly on any ramp. Those of us who leak oil truly know the shape of the world...
 
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Think clearways, climb gradients, V2, Hazmat, etc.
That's not part of the ATP oral unless you're flying a Transport Category aircraft, and the Hazmat stuff is only for a commercial carrier. The ATP ride by the PTS is quite specific to the actual aircraft used.
The oral is the same as for the ME ATP. That's why the add on is only a ride for ME.
Doing an add-on class rating still requires the same oral as specified in the Preflight Preparation section, but it's just not that big a deal.
 
That's not part of the ATP oral unless you're flying a Transport Category aircraft, and the Hazmat stuff is only for a commercial carrier. The ATP ride by the PTS is quite specific to the actual aircraft used.
Oh dear. My examiner didnt' get the memo.
Doing an add-on class rating still requires the same oral as specified in the Preflight Preparation section, but it's just not that big a deal.
agreed.
 
Oh dear. My examiner didnt' get the memo.agreed.
Sadly, there are DPE's who have their own personal supplement to the PTS, but here's the official word from the PTS on what's in the ground portion of the ATP ride (both initial and additional rating):
I. AREA OF OPERATION: PREFLIGHT PREPARATION

A. TASK: EQUIPMENT EXAMINATION
REFERENCES: Part 61; POH, AFM.


Objective.
To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits adequate knowledge appropriate to the airplane;
its systems and components; its normal, abnormal, and
emergency procedures; and uses the correct terminology
with regard to the following items—
a. landing gear—indicators, float devices, brakes,
antiskid, tires, nose-wheel steering, and shock
absorbers.
b. powerplant—controls and indications, induction
system, carburetor and fuel injection, turbocharging,
cooling, fire detection/protection, mounting points,
turbine wheels, compressors, deicing, anti-icing, and
other related components.
c. propellers—type, controls, feathering/unfeathering,
autofeather, negative torque sensing, synchronizing,
and synchrophasing.
d. fuel system—capacity; drains; pumps; controls;
indicators; crossfeeding; transferring; jettison; fuel
grade, color and additives; fueling and defueling
procedures; and substitutions, if applicable.
e. oil system—capacity, grade, quantities, and
indicators.
f. hydraulic system—capacity, pumps, pressure,
reservoirs, grade, and regulators.
g. electrical system—alternators, generators, battery,
circuit breakers and protection devices, controls,
indicators, and external and auxiliary power sources
and ratings.
h. environmental systems—heating, cooling, ventilation,
oxygen and pressurization, controls, indicators, and
regulating devices.
i. avionics and communications—autopilot; flight
director; Electronic Flight Indicating Systems (EFIS);
Flight Management System(s) (FMS); Long Range
Navigation (LORAN) systems; Doppler Radar; Inertial
Navigation Systems (INS); Global Positioning
System (GPS/DGPS/WGPS); VOR, NDB, ILS/MLS,
RNAV systems and components; indicating devices;
transponder; and emergency locator transmitter.
j. ice protection—anti-ice, deice, pitot-static system
protection, propeller, windshield, wing and tail
surfaces.
k. crewmember and passenger equipment—oxygen
system, survival gear, emergency exits, evacuation
procedures and crew duties, and quick donning
oxygen mask for crewmembers and passengers.
l. flight controls—ailerons, elevator(s), rudder(s),
winglets, canards, control tabs, balance tabs,
stabilizer, flaps, spoilers, leading edge flaps/slats
and trim systems.
m. pitot-static system with associated instruments and
the power source for the flight instruments.
2. Exhibits adequate knowledge of the contents of the POH
or AFM with regard to the systems and components
listed in paragraph 1 (above); the Minimum Equipment
List (MEL), if appropriate; and the Operations
Specifications, if applicable.

B. TASK: PERFORMANCE AND LIMITATIONS
REFERENCES: Parts 1, 61, 91; AIM, POH, AFM.
Objective.


To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits adequate knowledge of performance and
limitations, including a thorough knowledge of the
adverse effects of exceeding any limitation.
2. Demonstrates proficient use of (as appropriate to the
airplane) performance charts, tables, graphs, or other
data relating to items, such as—
a. accelerate-stop distance.
b. accelerate-go distance.
c. takeoff performance—all engines, engine(s)
inoperative.
d. climb performance including segmented climb
performance; with all engines operating—with one or
more engine(s) inoperative, and with other engine
malfunctions as may be appropriate.
e. service ceiling—all engines, engines(s) inoperative,
including drift down, if appropriate.
f. cruise performance.
g. fuel consumption, range, and endurance.
h. descent performance.
i. land and hold short operations (LAHSO).
j. go-around from rejected landings.
k. other performance data (appropriate to the airplane).
3. Describes (as appropriate to the airplane) the airspeeds
used during specific phases of flight.
4. Describes the effects of meteorological conditions upon
performance characteristics and correctly applies these
factors to a specific chart, table, graph, or other
performance data.
5. Computes the center-of-gravity location for a specific load
condition (as specified by the examiner), including
adding, removing, or shifting weight.
6. Determines if the computed center-of-gravity is within the
forward and aft center-of-gravity limits, and that lateral
fuel balance is within limits for takeoff and landing.
7. Demonstrates good planning and knowledge of
procedures in applying operational factors affecting

airplane performance.
You won't find anything about clearways or V2 in a Piper Seminole manual, and there's nothing about HAZMAT at all. Also, note that unlike all the other PTS's, there's no Additional Rating Task Table -- it's all required for each rating no matter what you already have. However, you'll also note that it's all specific to the aircraft provided for the test.
 
Sadly, there are DPE's who have their own personal supplement to the PTS, but here's the official word from the PTS on what's in the ground portion of the ATP ride (both initial and additional rating)

Wow, sounds like everything we covered in 727-200 systems ground school. Quite comprehensive if you're flying a large transport category aircraft. Fortunately if you're taking your ATP the Seminole or most any light twin, the aircraft only has a fraction of those systems and/or associated devices.
 
Wow, sounds like everything we covered in 727-200 systems ground school. Quite comprehensive if you're flying a large transport category aircraft. Fortunately if you're taking your ATP the Seminole or most any light twin, the aircraft only has a fraction of those systems and/or associated devices.
You nailed it.
 
Since you've got to answer all those questions for a type rating anyway, and fly to ATP standards - I can see why most folks combine the two. I plan on doing a jet type and the ATP at the same time, and then add the single on later.

Question - is the ATP written good for only two years too? I thought there was some deal back in the good old days where you could take some part of the ATP test or ride and get the certificate issued once you hit the 1500 hours.
 
Since you've got to answer all those questions for a type rating anyway, and fly to ATP standards - I can see why most folks combine the two. I plan on doing a jet type and the ATP at the same time, and then add the single on later.
One of the problems with that strategy is that it's sometimes easier to get hired if you already have an ATP. Presumably you are not planning to pay for a jet type rating yourself. I would say that most of the people I know got their ATP in a smaller piston twin. I got mine in a Duchess.
 
One of the problems with that strategy is that it's sometimes easier to get hired if you already have an ATP. Presumably you are not planning to pay for a jet type rating yourself. I would say that most of the people I know got their ATP in a smaller piston twin. I got mine in a Duchess.

I'll probably pay for it (and/or get my employer to kick in) - I've been saving for a while for it.
 
Question - is the ATP written good for only two years too? I thought there was some deal back in the good old days where you could take some part of the ATP test or ride and get the certificate issued once you hit the 1500 hours.

The ATP written is valid for 24 calendar months just like all of the other written exams. The ONLY exception is if you are hired as a pilot for a part 121, 125, or 135 air carrier, then you may use the expired knowledge test to satisfy the requirement of 61.153(f) provided you accomplish the air carrier's approved pilot in command training program for the certificate/rating sought. See 14 CFR 61.39(b).

Let's just say the attached hand drawn schematic was not the most fun thing I've ever spent my time creating. B727 air conditioning and pneumatic diagram. Brownie points to whoever can tell whether its a B727-100 or B727-200 schematic and why.
 

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Question - is the ATP written good for only two years too? I thought there was some deal back in the good old days where you could take some part of the ATP test or ride and get the certificate issued once you hit the 1500 hours.

If employed P121 you can "shelve" the written until upgrade training . Im not sure if this is the same for 135.
 
Let's just say the attached hand drawn schematic was not the most fun thing I've ever spent my time creating. B727 air conditioning and pneumatic diagram. Brownie points to whoever can tell whether its a B727-100 or B727-200 schematic and why.

Im going to say 100..because it looks pretty old.:wink2:
 
I'll probably pay for it (and/or get my employer to kick in) - I've been saving for a while for it.
Let me say that that's not really the normal way of doing it. Just be careful of people that make you pay for your own type rating as a condition of employment. They may have a tendency to be cheap, um, frugal, in other ways.
 
Going with with Bert? Awesome! He's a good examiner. I send most of my guys to him.

You'll be fine but good luck anyways!
 
Thanks Tristan,
Bert is the guy to go with on this for sure. looks like ice an issue in am though according to adds, so will probably have to go another day.
I'm sure you will be going for ATP soon as well.
 
Hey Clay, heads up on the ice thing too. I dunno if he'll ask an ATP applicant but he stressed it a lot with my last student. AKA how do you fly the plane with ice on it, don't use flaps, etc.

Thanks! I need a few XC hours yet before my ATP but it'll come soon enough I'm sure!
 
If employed P121 you can "shelve" the written until upgrade training . Im not sure if this is the same for 135.
Here's the full text of 61.39(b) that Jason mentioned:
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (a)(1) and (2) of this section, an applicant for an airline transport pilot certificate or an additional rating to an airline transport certificate may take the practical test for that certificate or rating with an expired knowledge test report, provided that the applicant:
(1) Is employed as a flight crewmember by a certificate holder under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter at the time of the practical test and has satisfactorily accomplished that operator's approved--
(i) Pilot in command aircraft qualification training program that is appropriate to the certificate and rating sought; and
(ii) Qualification training requirements appropriate to the certificate and rating sought; or
(2) Is employed by the U.S. Armed Forces as a flight crewmember in U.S. military air transport operations at the time of the practical test and has completed the pilot in command aircraft qualification training program that is appropriate to the pilot certificate and rating sought.
Not just 121, but also 135 and 125 certificate-holding operators, as well as military flight crewmembers in transport outfits (that last part having been added only last year).
 
Let me say that that's not really the normal way of doing it. Just be careful of people that make you pay for your own type rating as a condition of employment. They may have a tendency to be cheap, um, frugal, in other ways.

I understand. I'm not getting a type rating as part of my working conditions. I'll be getting one because my current employer will pay for professional education, and when I decide to "Retire" from engineering consulting and go to aviation as my next career, having a type rating already may be useful.
 
The ATP written is valid for 24 calendar months just like all of the other written exams. The ONLY exception is if you are hired as a pilot for a part 121, 125, or 135 air carrier, then you may use the expired knowledge test to satisfy the requirement of 61.153(f) provided you accomplish the air carrier's approved pilot in command training program for the certificate/rating sought. See 14 CFR 61.39(b).

Let's just say the attached hand drawn schematic was not the most fun thing I've ever spent my time creating. B727 air conditioning and pneumatic diagram. Brownie points to whoever can tell whether its a B727-100 or B727-200 schematic and why.

Best I can tell from the drawing it's a -200 system. It has the flow multiplier. The -100's APU was plumbed through the wing anti-ice duct since it was added as an afterthought.

I spent 7500 hours in all variations of the 727. Great airplane.:thumbsup:
 
Best I can tell from the drawing it's a -200 system. It has the flow multiplier. The -100's APU was plumbed through the wing anti-ice duct since it was added as an afterthought.

I spent 7500 hours in all variations of the 727. Great airplane.:thumbsup:

Yup, it's a -200 schematic. Nice work! :cheerswine:

There are actually 3 ways to tell, one of them being the flow multiplier. The other two giveaways are the fact that cold air is ducted to the gasper fan system only from the the left air conditioning pack and that there is a cool air mix valve which supplies air from the secondary heat exchanger.

The -100 doesn't have a flow multiplier, ducts cold air from both packs to the gasper fan system, and only has cold and hot mixing valves for each pack. Attached is the actual schematic.
 

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