ATP SEL to ATP MEL...Aug 1

Roberd42 said:
Before the time for atp was 500 hours and now it's 1500 hours for an unrestricted atp, 1000 for a restricted one I believe.
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Got a reference for that 500-hour ATP? It was 1500 hours 25 years ago when I got mine.

The moment the rule went live in July 2014, the new test and CTP went active and I was unknowingly precluded from adding ME privileges because there was no grandfathering clause.
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The rule was published in July 2013. It was advertised and known for some time before that. Having your eyes closed and ears plugged doesn't mean somebody snuck up on you.
 
unsafervguy said:
The only real effect that had on 121 ops was they could no longer hire people with less than 1500 ( or 1000 if they qualify for a RATP) because 121 has trained/checked to ATP standards.
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There's a number who are "hiring" below 1500 right now, they just give a deadline date to make the 1500 number and make it contingent on the person passing the ATP ride -- which is not a big deal since it's ALL contingent on passing the rest of their rides during training and probation stuff after that, anyway. It's a string of stuff more than the ATP being some sort of big single hurdle.

When I say "hiring" I mean "under contract" but in any normal business that's "hired".

Airlines are odd businesses in many ways, but they do want people to sign on the dotted line before 1500 these days, or so I hear. They want to lock the people they find, into a slot they need filled.

Not trying to make too fine a point on it, but the ATP itself isn't the only or even the biggest hurdle in the whole process. Just one of many checkboxes from person-on-the-street to 121 pilot.

If someone feels seriously put out having a bureaucratic snafu gotcha make them have to retake a written test they've already taken and passed, they might be in for a surprise that there's always some sort of snafu in any long process and some folks get caught in them.

All of this stuff is still easier and better than trying to get hired to fly anything in the early 90s with mass numbers of furloughs ahead of everyone else in the pipe. It's all relative.
 
Maybe it was 1500hours all along. I could have sworn it was less. I even offered to retake the written in the petition to prove I retained the information if they would wave the CTP. I didn't have my eyes and ears closed, I knew there was a rule change coming but never thought they would retroactively invalidate my written. Oh well, I'll bend over and continue to take it. It never ends in this business.
 
Nothing "retroactive" about it. A change was made, you had the opportunity to get your ATP done without the CTP course, and you chose not to do it. Simple.
 
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My private written is still valid if I want to add private privileges for another category or class. My commercial written is still valid if I want to add commercial privileges for another category or class. However my ATP is no longer valid. It's just wrong. Doesn't matter because I can't change it now.
 
Roberd42 said:
My private written is still valid if I want to add private privileges for another category or class. My commercial written is still valid if I want to add commercial privileges for another category or class. However my ATP is no longer valid. It's just wrong. Doesn't matter because I can't change it now.
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No, those writtens expired 24 months after you took them, were only valid for the checkride at which you surrendered the results.

Those tests aren't what allow you to add privileges. What allows you to add privileges at any level without an additional written test is that the FAA determined your current privileges to be an adequate substitute. In the case of the ATP, Congress determined that not to be the case when applying for an ATP-ME, and the FAA complied with the law that Congress enacted.
 
MauleSkinner said:
No, those writtens expired 24 months after you took them, were only valid for the checkride at which you surrendered the results.

Those tests aren't what allow you to add privileges. What allows you to add privileges at any level without an additional written test is that the FAA determined your current privileges to be an adequate substitute. In the case of the ATP, Congress determined that not to be the case when applying for an ATP-ME, and the FAA complied with the law that Congress enacted.
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Correct. It is the fact that Congress made a specific carve-out of the ATP-ME in order to address the Colgan 3407 political turmoil. It was fairly well-stated as well, as it left the irrelevant ATP-SE pretty much untouched by comparison.

The OP appears umbraged because he had an ATP-SE. I get it, I've made similar arguments for the equivalency of initial issue ATPs based on military experience. Nope, shut up and color. 1000 hours of B-52H, heavy, oceanic experience. Eight engines at the same time doesn't qualify me to demonstrate proficiency in ME operations, but sweating at 3000AGL in unconditioned unpressurized Piper Semenhole is the gold seal gate keeper LOL. Or what about a squadronmate of mine, who got sent back after being able to bid NYC 88A @ Delta but because he doens't have 1000 hrs of 121 time, of which 500 can be military, he can't take a job his low seniority (good bad or indifferent) can hold. The reason? The 500 military has to be crew-required aircraft. His over 2000 hours of Mudhen or T38 instructor time is C-150 time as far as the FAA is concerned. And examples go on and on.

--break break--

The point OP, is that it was a known quantity when they made the change. Digging your heels and acting like you were special because you had a mickey mouse SE-ATP wasn't gonna do ya any favors. We all sucked it up and rushed to get the stupid thing done before the 5k extortion price tag was levied on the written prerequisites.

The easiest way to gain relief from this abortion is just to get one of these disposable regional employers to pay for it. Stick it to the industry. Do a couple months on the line and then quit for another aviation job, that way you get to justify the short stint at the regional without creating hardship on a major airline interview in the future. Good luck to ya.
 
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