ATP ME with CPL SE? my head is spinning

[hindsight2020]

Looked through the search function, no dice.

Long story short, military pilot, I was an idiot and left money on the table. Didn't go to the FSDO and get multi-engine Commercial privileges added to the existing SE CPL-IR I had as a civilian. now i'm currently qual'd in an SE aircraft so the mil comp avenue is out.

I've been considering getting an ATP MEL in a couple years (seeing as how ATP SEL is worthless to me) and some have suggested the CPL-IR I use to satisfy the part 61.153 requirements must be in the same CLASS as the ATP certificate being sought.

I went to 61.153(d)(1) and the verbiage makes no mention of class in the requirement. As I read it I can apply to take the ATP MEL practical test based on possessing a CPL-IR with Single Engine Land privileges only. Which is the correct interpretation?

 

[RotorAndWing]

Looked through the search function, no dice.

Long story short, military pilot, I was an idiot and left money on the table. Didn't go to the FSDO and get multi-engine Commercial privileges added to the existing SE CPL-IR I had as a civilian. now i'm currently qual'd in an SE aircraft so the mil comp avenue is out.

I've been considering getting an ATP MEL in a couple years (seeing as how ATP SEL is worthless to me) and some have suggested the CPL-IR I use to satisfy the part 61.153 requirements must be in the same CLASS as the ATP certificate being sought.

I went to 61.153(d)(1) and the verbiage makes no mention of class in the requirement. As I read it I can apply to take the ATP MEL practical test based on possessing a CPL-IR with Single Engine Land privileges only. Which is the correct interpretation?

What did you fly in the military?

 

[hindsight2020]

What did you fly in the military?

Heavy Bombers. Currently flying SE trainers. Like I said, I didn't seek the multi add-on when my form 8s were current in the bomber. Im trying to figure out if having a CPL SE qualifies to seek the practical test for multi engine ATP. My read of the FAR doesn't specify that I need to possess a CPL with multi-engine privileges to apply for a multi engine ATP. But Im not sure of my read of the FAR.

 

[poadeleted20]

Your regulatory knowledge is dated. The 12-month currency criterion was dropped in 2009. You can take your Form 8's, your current ticket, and an 8710-1 to the FSDO and get your ME rating added to your CP right now.

However, to answer your original question, As long as you meet the relevant experience requirements, you do not need an ME rating on your current pilot certificate to obtain an initial ATP with an ME rating. However, you will need a 61.31(d)(2) endorsement in your logbook to fly the twin solo (if necessary) before you take the take the ride. Per 61.31(l), you do not need either the rating or the endorsement to take the ride itself, just, say, if you're going to solo the twin over to the test site.

 

[Henning]

I don't think you need anything more than you have to qualify to take the ATP-ME ride. Not sure you're right on the CPL ME ineligibility either.

 

[PilotAlan]

Your regulatory knowledge is dated. The 12-month currency criterion was dropped in 2009. You can take your Form 8's, your current ticket, and an 8710-1 to the FSDO and get your ME rating added to your CP right now.

OMG, the FAA actually made something easier? You're a good egg, Ron. That will help the OP immensely.

 

[hindsight2020]

Thanks for the help guys! I can't believe they dropped the qualification check recency requirement for seeking FAA equivalency ratings. That sounds way too good to be true. You wouldn't happen to have verse and chapter of the policy change, so I can present that when the proverbial ignorant regional FSDO says a B-52 Form 8 from 2010 is no good for adding ME priviledges to my CPL today, now would you?

As to the ATP ME requirements, glad to hear I was reading the legalese correctly. It's nice to know I could still qualify for the ATP MEL certificate practical even if adding ME privileges to my CPL does not materialize as plausible with my prior military ME qualifications

Thanks again!

 

[catmandu]

Poke around this site for all the gouge (Disclaimer: I am a satisfied customer!)

 

[RotorAndWing]

Thanks for the help guys! I can't believe they dropped the qualification check recency requirement for seeking FAA equivalency ratings. That sounds way too good to be true. You wouldn't happen to have verse and chapter of the policy change, so I can present that when the proverbial ignorant regional FSDO says a B-52 Form 8 from 2010 is no good for adding ME priviledges to my CPL today, now would you?

As to the ATP ME requirements, glad to hear I was reading the legalese correctly. It's nice to know I could still qualify for the ATP MEL certificate practical even if adding ME privileges to my CPL does not materialize as plausible with my prior military ME qualifications

Thanks again!

The FAA has been doing alot of these. 14 CFR 61.73 is the regulation.

The Sheppard Air site is the best resource online about this and has details. I have sent many of my customers there for reference (although 50% of them were seeking a CFI) and the other 50% were adding on ratings acquired in the military as well as type ratings)

Here is the Sheppard Air site explanation: http://www.sheppardair.com/answer15.htm

Call your local FSDO and tell them what you would like to do and make an appointment. Make sure to clarify with them what you need to bring.(I have had to send a few back home when they showed up without everything)

If you have any difficulty please PM me.

Good Luck.

 

[maddog52]

Thanks for the help guys! I can't believe they dropped the qualification check recency requirement for seeking FAA equivalency ratings. That sounds way too good to be true. You wouldn't happen to have verse and chapter of the policy change, so I can present that when the proverbial ignorant regional FSDO says a B-52 Form 8 from 2010 is no good for adding ME priviledges to my CPL today, now would you?

As to the ATP ME requirements, glad to hear I was reading the legalese correctly. It's nice to know I could still qualify for the ATP MEL certificate practical even if adding ME privileges to my CPL does not materialize as plausible with my prior military ME qualifications

Thanks again!

I was in a similar situation in "98. Had a PP SEL and COM MEL (Centerline Thrust). Was a B-52 IP/EP out of that seat for 3 years but current as a T-34C IP. Had to take the MEL ATP written and practical. Got the CFI/II through a 141 school. The only thing the FSDO would do is give me a COM SEL Glad to see they fixed it. Are they giving type ratings on the B-52 now, they didn't have one available (no type certificate?)

 

[poadeleted20]

Are they giving type ratings on the B-52 now, they didn't have one available (no type certificate?)

Still can't give a type rating if the FAA doesn't have a type certificate. That covers a lot of military aircraft, but mostly fighter types. Since this doesn't have any practical effect, it's no big deal. However, the problem is larger for the folks in the fighter types with no established VMC like the F-15 and F/A-18, since they can only get a CLT ME rating on their pilot certificate and cannot get an ME rating at all on their CFI ticket based solely on their military pilot status. As a former BUFF IP, you can get both tickets with unrestricted ME ratings.

 

[Henning]

Still can't give a type rating if the FAA doesn't have a type certificate. That covers a lot of military aircraft, but mostly fighter types. Since this doesn't have any practical effect, it's no big deal. However, the problem is larger for the folks in the fighter types with no established VMC like the F-15 and F/A-18, since they can only get a CLT ME rating on their pilot certificate and cannot get an ME rating at all on their CFI ticket based solely on their military pilot status. As a former BUFF IP, you can get both tickets with unrestricted ME ratings.

Is that really a problem though? Has it changed so much for military pilots coming out? I worked for a guy was capt for United. He told me until he got in an airliner he had never been in a ME airplane (he flew F-100s). Back then the airline took care of all the ratings during the initial training period. Didn't seem to be an issue. Have the times really changed that much?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I've given MilComp types for L-382 (C-130), L-188 (P-3), B-737 (not sure military designation) Learjet (military equivalent) and Beech King Air B-200 (yes, the military has a type equivelant).

So there is some value to the MilComp for civilian type ratings.

 

[N801BH]

I've given MilComp types for L-382 (C-130), L-188 (P-3), B-737 (not sure military designation) Learjet (military equivalent) and Beech King Air B-200 (yes, the military has a type equivelant).

So there is some value to the MilComp for civilian type ratings.

B-737 is a C-40
B-757 is a C-32

 

[poadeleted20]

I've given MilComp types for L-382 (C-130), L-188 (P-3), B-737 (not sure military designation)

T-43 for the older ones (-200's), and C-40 for the newer ones (-700's).

Learjet (military equivalent) and Beech King Air B-200 (yes, the military has a type equivelant).

C-21 and C-12.

So there is some value to the MilComp for civilian type ratings.

...if there's a civilian aircraft for which that type rating would be required, such as BE-200 or LR-JET for the C-12 and C-21. Ain't none if the aircraft doesn't have an FAA type certificate (requires an LoA instead if it's that big), so the type rating issue is moot for those aircraft (B-52, F/A-18, etc).