Assessing my flight training options

RalphInCA

RalphInCA

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RalphInCA
Looking to the combined wisdom of this board to help me decide which direction I should go with my flight training. Here is my situation:

Originally earned my PPL in the early 1980s. Got about 200 hours and then had to stop flying because "life got in the way". Kids, mortgage, career.

Returned to flying about 4 years ago, got another 25 or so hours with an instructor flying a Remos. He had just signed me off to fly on my own, and I lost my job and had to stop flying. Bummer.

Now, four years later I am finally in a position to start flying again.

Today I visited a couple of airports around here to start learning about my flight instruction options. Seems I have three options.

1. SoCal Flying Club at KPOC is a fairly professional outfit with some nice airplanes (Diamond D40s) and a few Cessnas. CFIs are employed by the club. Typical Part 61 outfit where the emphasis is getting the student flying and using an instruction approach that is tailored to the student.

I spoke to a CFI there and what he wanted to was get me up in the airplane, assess my skills and then tailor a move forward plan from there.

2. Global Air Academy at KPOC did not have as nice airplanes (a fleet of three well used 172s, including a 172RG), or as nice an office, but the Chief CFI and business owner, talked much more about having me become the best pilot I can possibly be then how fast we can get flying. He suggested I spend a lot of time learning on the ground, through books, and other means (including "Chair flying" in front of a picture of the 172 cockpit) before we get to the airplane. His approach was to learn how to do the maneuvers and how to fly the airplane on the ground, and then use air time to reinforce what was learned on the ground.

3. Foothill Flying Club at KCCB was a typical flying club. They have a wide range of aircraft from 152s to Bonanzas, but they do not employ any CFIs. They have a list of CFIs that I could call. Flight instruction would be between me and the self employed CFIs. Whole feel of this place was more "good ol Boy" and grassroots than the other two places.

What would you do?

My goal is to become current, and then get my instrument rating. Not in any hurry. Wouldn't bother me to spend a year or more doing the above, since I consider the training as much fun as actually flying somewhere.
 
I'd go with option one.

One thing I look it is the condition of the fleet. Everything that can possibly go wrong in an airplane can be controlled by the pilot except for a mechanical failure. So you can train as much as you want, but you won't be able to stop an engine failure from happening. You want to be flying a well maintained aircraft.
Also you'll love the DA40.

I'm a bit confused by the approach of the second school. First they say that they can get you flying very fast then they say that you'll need to spend a lot of time reading books and on ground school in general, only then will you go up in an airplane. So which one is it? Will you be flying right away or will they take their time?
In addition they say that they will want you to be the best pilot you can possibly be, from a certain point of view this is good but it also says that they won't sign you off until they think that you are really good. And their opinion of "good" can be wrong, I've seen instructors spends hours focusing their training on a minor thing that realistically doesn't matter.

The one disadvantage of the 3rd option is the multiple aircraft. While one aircraft is down there won't be a second one just like it for you to train on.
 
Option one,the idea is to get you back up and flying. The airplanes sound nice also.
 
MachFly said:
I'm a bit confused by the approach of the second school. First they say that they can get you flying very fast then they say that you'll need to spend a lot of time reading books and on ground school in general, only then will you go up in an airplane. So which one is it? Will you be flying right away or will they take their time? .
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To clarify: the chief flight instructor made it clear that he was not in any hurry to get me into the airplane. He wanted to prepare me as much as possible on the ground and then get in the airplane.

The airplane is used to reinforce what is learned on the ground.

He said this is similar to what the airlines do, since airlines can't afford to have their pilots fly the big jets for training.


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I am learning at a part 61 school that really does want to get the people in the air, and the timing and amount of groundwork is done on a student to student basis. With that said, at no time did I feel that they were rushing me to solo (nor draggin their feet either). People learn in different ways, so pick the program that suits you, not force youself into a program that may not fit.
 
RalphInCA said:
To clarify: the chief flight instructor made it clear that he was not in any hurry to get me into the airplane. He wanted to prepare me as much as possible on the ground and then get in the airplane.

The airplane is used to reinforce what is learned on the ground.

He said this is similar to what the airlines do, since airlines can't afford to have their pilots fly the big jets for training.


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Click to expand...

I see.
You can do the ground stuff on your own, you don't need to pay the school for that. Just buy a textbook and read, then if you have a question you can ask either on here or your IP. What you need the school for is the actual flight training, so I'd go with the school that promises actual flight training, rather than ground.
Don't buy that airlines BS, airlines uses level D sims (which I seriously doubt that schools has) and the majority of their training is not focused on hand flying the plane. After not flying for so long what you will need to do now is get the feel for the plane and become proficient at basic maneuvers and landings, you can't do that by reading a book.


I looked at the two airports that your considering. KPOC is probably (I've never been to either) a better place to be based out of. It has two runways and a tower, should make things a bit easier. But that's just my personal preference.
 
One other thing. Make sure you go to a 61, and not a 141 school. Reading your story you don't want to be dealing with all the 141 crap right now.
Do note that some 141 schools can do a 61 program, in which case that's okay.
 
MachFly said:
I see.
You can do the ground stuff on your own, you don't need to pay the school for that. Just buy a textbook and read, then if you have a question you can ask either on here or your IP. What you need the school for is the actual flight training, so I'd go with the school that promises actual flight training, rather than ground.
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Thanks machFly for your comments. They have been a great help so far.

Just a further clarification: he does suggest a lot of home study and book learning before we get in the airplane, BUT he also uses ground training that I pay for (@$50/hr). So it's not just learn on my own, ask questions and les get in the airplane.

He seems to put a very high priority on ground training - higher than most other places.

I like the concept in general, but since my biggest goal right now IS SIMPLY TO FLY, I think I will go with the place that gets me flying. Even if this is not the most efficient path to my ultimate goal (instrument rating)

For me flying is the thing. Whatever form it takes - training, XC, Touch and goes, whatever.
 
I have done a part 61 school with almost 100% self study. I just soloed, and will be doing my first solo practice this week. I have not taken my practical test yet. With all that, my CFI said he was very impressed with my knowledge based as shown by my pre-solo test. So you can do most of it alone. I have done maybe 1 hour of true ground school, and close to 27 hours of flying at this point.
 
RalphInCA said:
Thanks machFly for your comments. They have been a great help so far.

Just a further clarification: he does suggest a lot of home study and book learning before we get in the airplane, BUT he also uses ground training that I pay for (@$50/hr). So it's not just learn on my own, ask questions and les get in the airplane.

He seems to put a very high priority on ground training - higher than most other places.

I like the concept in general, but since my biggest goal right now IS SIMPLY TO FLY, I think I will go with the place that gets me flying. Even if this is not the most efficient path to my ultimate goal (instrument rating)

For me flying is the thing. Whatever form it takes - training, XC, Touch and goes, whatever.
Click to expand...

The way I see it your not looking for basic training, you have a general idea of what your doing and are essentially looking for a refresher. Granted you'll need to do some studying on the ground, there is not getting around that. But regardless whether you learn on your own or have an instructor teach you, you'll still have questions. If your concerned that you won't have as much time to ask them at the first school, that shouldn't be an issue, You'll do a prebrief before each flight and a debrief after, so you'll have plenty of time to ask. Also I'm sure if you request it the first school will do a ground lesson with you as well.

If your not sure how to do your own ground studying. I recommend you get a private pilot jeppesen textbook and read the whole thing (I know it's a lot, still read it). You don't need to read it before your first flight, as your reading it you should be putting that new information to use, so do it while your flying.

I know some people don't really like studying on their own, and if that's the case with you maybe the second school will be better. Think your preferred learning method.

What you can also do is take a lesson at each school and see what their approach is. You'll get to see if you can work with their instructor and see how you like their plane. This will cost you a little more, but it might save money in the end.
 
Lots of good advice above.

First, I would get the King computer based study guide for Private Pilot and go through it.
Ya, ya, ya. I know you already know the regs, and weight and balance, etc. But that was a long time ago. Just do it.
Next, I get the impression you like a structured environment so the Part 61 school at KPOC seems to appeal (you listed it first, eh) Nothing wrong with a professional approach and well maintained machinery.
How about asking them to put you through the preparation/maneuvers to take the Commercial check ride? This will not require a lot of hours and dollars and will allow you to decide if you and they are a good match - as well as for you to decide if you want to pursue the Instrument Rating. First off, they will tell you that the commercial ticket without an instrument rating is worthless. They are correct. But going after the commercial is simply a first step into getting your stick and rudder skills back - after a bunch of setbacks and lots of years of rust.
With the commercial in hand you can then go any direction you choose.

And continue to use the King School study series. They get the job done.

cheers
 
Thanks guys. You have been a big help.

Today I will be going over the the main office of SoCal Flying Club (my #1 choice, above) at El Monte airport (EMT) to see what they look like. They have two locations, and if I join the club, I will have access to both locations. EMT is a little further away from me and I will have fight more LA traffic to get there, but it's do-able, especially if I lane split on the motorcycle. :)

I will probably mostly fly out of POC, but EMT will be an option.

If things look good there, I'll join the club and GET BACK IN THE AIR!
 
I think you made the right choice to go with option one. It's very similar to what I did when I got back into flying.

Some background: I got my PPL in 1989 in Tennessee. Did my three required arrivals at a controlled airport, but the vast majority of my training was at a small non-towered airport. Never, NEVER, saw another plane in the pattern there. Then I moved to California right after college and didn't fly again for 23+ years. First job, starting a family, etc., but the biggest issue was all the controlled airspace and traffic out here. Much different situation, and frankly it was intimidating.

Anyway, I finally decided to get back into flying 3 years ago. I did an online ground school and got my medical out of the way first and then made an appointment with West Valley Flying Club in Palo Alto. They have Citabrias, and I wanted to combine getting back into flying with a tailwheel cert. They scheduled an appointment with one of their instructors, and we spent about 30-40 minutes getting to know each other, talking about my background and my goals. Then we went flying. He gave me the controls right after takeoff and only took them back on short final. I was out of work at the time, so I was able to schedule an intensive 10 hours or so with him to get the tail wheel cert and the BFR. Used the same guy for my IFR rating. The club has Citabrias, 172's, 182's, and some other planes also including at one time a Super Decathlon. Having the variety of planes was nice, and it was easy to get checked out in the Cessnas for family travel and IR work in addition to using the Citabria for tailwheel fun and the Super Decathlon whenever I wanted to make the earth and sky swap places.

The point is, the best way to get back into flying is to go Fly. You also need access to a fleet of well maintained planes and a good instructor or set of instructors. Your option 1 sounds a lot like the flying club I used to get back into flying.

As a side note, I did drop my membership finally after I bought my plane and the club lost access to the Super D, but I still recommend it to people wanting to get into flying.
 
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Excellent, Jim. Your situation does indeed sound much like mine. Thanks


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RalphInCA said:
Excellent, Jim. Your situation does indeed sound much like mine. Thanks


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You're welcome, and good luck getting back into it. By the way, the online ground school I used was the Gold Seal Online school: http://www.faa-ground-school.com/. Very helpful for me. When I last flew in 1989, there were TCAs, airport traffic areas, control zones, ARSAs, and TRSAs. When I got back into it all that was gone and replaced by Class B's, C', D's, etc. The regs had changed quite a bit also, and there was this GPS stuff! Going through the Gold Seal stuff really helped. There are other courses also (King, Sporty's, etc.). Whichever course you choose, I would recommend going through one of the courses to brush up on stuff.

Jim
 
jimhorner said:
You're welcome, and good luck getting back into it. By the way, the online ground school I used was the Gold Seal Online school: http://www.faa-ground-school.com/. Very helpful for me. When I last flew in 1989, there were TCAs, airport traffic areas, control zones, ARSAs, and TRSAs. When I got back into it all that was gone and replaced by Class B's, C', D's, etc. The regs had changed quite a bit also, and there was this GPS stuff! Going through the Gold Seal stuff really helped. There are other courses also (King, Sporty's, etc.). Whichever course you choose, I would recommend going through one of the courses to brush up on stuff.

Jim
Click to expand...

Good advice about going through the on line ground school. I have resurrected a subscription had to John and Martha King's Private Pilot ground school. Purchased about 4 years ago, the last time I tried to get back into aviation.

Have also dug out my old training manuals and am replacing the ones that seem pretty dated. Just ordered a copy of the Jeppesen Commercial Instrument manual. Also got a LA Sectional and am reviewing it. Airspace around here is whole lot different than around Raleigh, NC, which was the last place I flew!

Hope the water ain't too cold, cause I'm jumping in!

Hope also my money holds out. :wink2:
 
Thanks warthog. will get one next time I am up at the airport.


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What's wrong with chair flying?

Ground instruction is important; the cockpit IS a terrible classroom. Many instructors would rather just jump in the plane and fly, rather than do a proper pre-flight brief.

That said, unless I'm training for an airline, I don't really care how airlines train, per se. Also, in my experience, every instance of the word "Academy" in conjuction with flight training seemed to infer inflated rates and occasionally shady business dealings.
 
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