ASRS report protection?

Jeanie

Jeanie

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Jeanie
So, does filing an ASRS report immediately after a perceived possible violation protect the pilot from said violation?

I read the web site and it looks like the FAA would be "kind" but still pursue it.

~~~~~. No, there hasn't been one, this is a what if question in order to clarify it to teach it.

Thanks
 
Jeanie said:
So, does filing an ASRS report immediately after a perceived possible violation protect the pilot from said violation?

I read the web site and it looks like the FAA would be "kind" but still pursue it.

~~~~~. No, there hasn't been one, this is a what if question in order to clarify it to teach it.

Thanks
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http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html

Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if:
  • the violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;
  • the violation did not involve a criminal offense, or accident. or action under 49 U.S.C. Section 44709 which discloses a lack of qualification or competency, which is wholly excluded from this policy;
  • the person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the date of occurrence; and
  • the person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or she completed and delivered or mailed a written report of the incident or occurrence to NASA under ASRS. See paragraphs 5c and 7b.
 
Its a get out of jail free with a record card.(IF they find out about it from another source and draw their sword )...they can pursue a violation but they cant enforce the penalty for most situations...they can also go the warning letter, letter of correction, verbal counseling, or do nothing route
 
taters said:
Its a get out of jail free with a record card.(IF they find out about it from another source and draw their sword )...they can pursue a violation but they cant enforce the penalty for most situations...they can also go the warning letter, letter of correction, verbal counseling, or do nothing route
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And since our pilot records have been "improved" thanks to Congress, most of these options stick with you for life now, I believe.
 
TMetzinger said:
And since our pilot records have been "improved" thanks to Congress, most of these options stick with you for life now, I believe.
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Giving true meaning to the words "This WILL go on your permanent record..."
 
TMetzinger said:
And since our pilot records have been "improved" thanks to Congress, most of these options stick with you for life now, I believe.
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Correct. An act of Congress last year put an end to the practice of expunging violations from pilot records five years after the violation. Administrative actions like Warning Notices, Letters of Correction, and remedial training still get expunged after two years.

BTW, while those things all get expunged from your "official" record, there is a dark vault deep in the ground below the FAA records center where everything goes and nothing gets expunged -- ever. It takes a very special situation (such as a Wright Brothers Award review) to get a "blue ribbon" package out of that hole, but if push ever comes to legal shove (say, you answered "no" on a question about whether you ever had a violation because your last one was more than five years ago and was expunged under the old policy and a criminal case is begun), that information could be used against you. However, one place where expunged actions will not be seen is in an FAA violation proceeding, so if it's been more than two years since that Warning Notice about something you did, and you did it again and got caught, the investigating Inspector should not see anything about that old infraction.
 
TMetzinger said:
And since our pilot records have been "improved" thanks to Congress, most of these options stick with you for life now, I believe.
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PRIA request are also no longer limited to 5 years from what I have heard...so an unsat sim session for a type can "follow" you for life depending on the records your employer carries.
 
The unintended consequences of this will be entertaining for some time to come.

But I must play Devil's Advocate for a minute here. Anyone think it's a bad idea to wash out pilots who fail multiple rides, even if separated by many years?

I'm just curious why this is being considered a Bad Thing(TM). Don't we want the Steely Eyed Missile Men in the cockpit?

Honestly I don't have an opinion. I just want to ask the question and see opinions.

I personally think Seniority is a pretty awful way to primarily determine who flies which gear, especially in a business environment where airlines go under and better-qualified pilit's end up on the bottom of the totem-pole at a new company, but I'm not convinced one way or the other on long-term performance tracking.

Kinda depends on how it gets used.
 
So, in practice:

A - If you bust altitude under a Class B for 20 sec before you notice it and get it back down, do you report it?

B - Or is it that you bust altitude for 20 sec exactly when somebody else pops out of nowhere maybe a little too close, before you get it back down that's when you report it?

Honestly, a bad mishap can take place in seconds. But, I assume it's not unusual for a new low time pilot to get distracted for a few seconds and make a mistake.

Thanks for the thread, I need to find some time to read/review all of this info. Gosh, I wish my time dialation/infinite energy machine worked better!
 
denverpilot said:
The unintended consequences of this will be entertaining for some time to come.

But I must play Devil's Advocate for a minute here. Anyone think it's a bad idea to wash out pilots who fail multiple rides, even if separated by many years?

I'm just curious why this is being considered a Bad Thing(TM). Don't we want the Steely Eyed Missile Men in the cockpit?

Honestly I don't have an opinion. I just want to ask the question and see opinions.

I personally think Seniority is a pretty awful way to primarily determine who flies which gear, especially in a business environment where airlines go under and better-qualified pilit's end up on the bottom of the totem-pole at a new company, but I'm not convinced one way or the other on long-term performance tracking.

Kinda depends on how it gets used.
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So do you support "One strike and yer out" as applied to pilot records (in the same way it's applied for criminal cases)?
 
denverpilot said:
The unintended consequences of this will be entertaining for some time to come.

But I must play Devil's Advocate for a minute here. Anyone think it's a bad idea to wash out pilots who fail multiple rides, even if separated by many years?
Click to expand...

Would you want to take a chance on spending thousands of dollars on training someone with a history of checkride failures? The airlines generally dont. One or 2 failed (non-professional) check-rides can be tolerated if handled the right way.
But go fail a few check-rides or even a training event somewhere and see how that goes over at another carrier post-colgan.

One strike your out? I doubt anyone would be a real fan of that...but more than one and some real questions have to be asked.
 
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kontiki said:
So, in practice:

A - If you bust altitude under a Class B for 20 sec before you notice it and get it back down, do you report it?

B - Or is it that you bust altitude for 20 sec exactly when somebody else pops out of nowhere maybe a little too close, before you get it back down that's when you report it?
Click to expand...
Just report it. It can't hurt, and it can help.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just report it. It can't hurt, and it can help.
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Agreed. It only takes five minutes to fill out the form.

Can do it online these days or just print one out and leave it in your flight bag with postage already on it.

Plus if you've ever read the research that comes our of these reports, it's helped uncover some tricky stuff that pilots might not otherwise report en masse for fear of retribution.

Call it a very good way to run a "Suggestion Box" in many ways.
 
kontiki said:
So, in practice:

A - If you bust altitude under a Class B for 20 sec before you notice it and get it back down, do you report it?
Click to expand...

Mode C has a variance potential of a few hundred feet. Depends how far you busted that Bravo.
 
Mike I said:
Mode C has a variance potential of a few hundred feet. Depends how far you busted that Bravo.
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Not really. If you even think you busted the Bravo, even for a second, write it up. You may have a lesson for others to learn, and it may give you waiver of sanction. OTOH, the worst it can do is...






...nothing.
 
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