Article: "The Russian Air Force is falling out of the sky"

The article omits one critical factor in Russia's ability to wage war, the nuclear missile force. Making a proud person seem vulnerable when they still have the capability to launch nukes has some distinct hazards.
 
Henning said:
The article omits one critical factor in Russia's ability to wage war, the nuclear missile force. Making a proud person seem vulnerable when they still have the capability to launch nukes has some distinct hazards.
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It does sort of imply that most will fail to ignite, blow up on the pad, go off course or fail to detonate. Still... some may get through. Something to think about.
 
Palmpilot said:
"The Russian Air Force is falling out of the sky"

http://theweek.com/articles/565028/russian-air-force-falling-sky
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I guess the rattling isn't a saber, but a loose airframe part. When the MIG-29 crashed at Paris a couple of decades back, it was discovered that some of it's avionics still used vacuum tubes. Whatever we're doing, perhaps we should up the tempo a notch to passively allow them to trash more hardware. Czar Putin's a putz. He can only take a little satisfaction when his 2nd rate forces prevail over someone else's 3rd rate forces, while NATO slowly tightens the fence between him and the rest of Europe.

Our own military problems are mainly overspending on programs we no longer need or simply don't work, as well as the constant deployment of our forces to places where we shouldn't be in the first place, and that only increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks on the U.S. The Arabs have a big problem in ISIS/ISIL. It's not a problem we caused, and it's not a problem we are required solve. We need to stop being Saudi Arabia's muscle and make these guys address their own problems. The US has spent too much in taxpayer dollars and service personnel's blood to protect the oppressive, uber-rich rulers of the OPEC/GCC countries. Frankly, we really don't need their oil as much as we used to...so why are we always at their beck and call?

Pull out of Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and even Afghanistan. We're not doing any good there. What about Israel. OK...if we want to support and help defend Israel, then maybe we should have naval and air bases actually in Israel, and not in every other country that under their breath curse Israel's existence on a daily basis while they donate money to terrorist groups. If we do decide that our military should be used to address a problem in the middle east, we might do that, but they should be footing every dime, NOT the American taxpayer, and their military personnel should have some skin in the game. No Americans should die to keep a filthy-rich Kuwaiti, Saudi, or Emirati scumbag sitting in his lavish home watching us on Al Jazeera while he treats is Filipino servants like trash.

From Afghanistan, I wish you all safe and happy flying!
 
Not unlike our colds war Stats in the 80's we were killing and crashing all kind of things...particularly early F-16's with their engines letting go...my god in the Army we could not go a week without killing someone in a crash op tempo will show your weakness...
 
The price of intimidation ,and aggression is starting to manifest itself. Knowing your fleet is aging,makes you strike out,when actually you are displaying your weakness.
 
Dav8or said:
It does sort of imply that most will fail to ignite, blow up on the pad, go off course or fail to detonate. Still... some may get through. Something to think about.
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Considering they are still making it to the ISS without blowing up, I don't think that is a legitimate position to take.
 
Henning said:
Considering they are still making it to the ISS without blowing up, I don't think that is a legitimate position to take.
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I suspect the implication is that ISS launches are new, handmade rockets that have been petted all the way through the process and therefore have good reliability.

Those ICBM's that have been sitting in a silo or on a mobile launcher for two decades? Not so much, although I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference whether a nuclear strike has the planned 5,000 warheads or only 500 because 90% of the rockets failed.
 
SbestCFII said:
I guess the rattling isn't a saber, but a loose airframe part. When the MIG-29 crashed at Paris a couple of decades back, it was discovered that some of it's avionics still used vacuum tubes. Whatever we're doing, perhaps we should up the tempo a notch to passively allow them to trash more hardware. Czar Putin's a putz. He can only take a little satisfaction when his 2nd rate forces prevail over someone else's 3rd rate forces, while NATO slowly tightens the fence between him and the rest of Europe.

Our own military problems are mainly overspending on programs we no longer need or simply don't work, as well as the constant deployment of our forces to places where we shouldn't be in the first place, and that only increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks on the U.S. The Arabs have a big problem in ISIS/ISIL. It's not a problem we caused, and it's not a problem we are required solve. We need to stop being Saudi Arabia's muscle and make these guys address their own problems. The US has spent too much in taxpayer dollars and service personnel's blood to protect the oppressive, uber-rich rulers of the OPEC/GCC countries. Frankly, we really don't need their oil as much as we used to...so why are we always at their beck and call?

Pull out of Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and even Afghanistan. We're not doing any good there. What about Israel. OK...if we want to support and help defend Israel, then maybe we should have naval and air bases actually in Israel, and not in every other country that under their breath curse Israel's existence on a daily basis while they donate money to terrorist groups. If we do decide that our military should be used to address a problem in the middle east, we might do that, but they should be footing every dime, NOT the American taxpayer, and their military personnel should have some skin in the game. No Americans should die to keep a filthy-rich Kuwaiti, Saudi, or Emirati scumbag sitting in his lavish home watching us on Al Jazeera while he treats is Filipino servants like trash.

From Afghanistan, I wish you all safe and happy flying!
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How do you figure that? Do you even understand the issue within Islam? One side has adopted our economic system which is forbidden under their Sharia (as well as our biblical and Constitutional) law, and the gerrymandering of their lands at the beginning of the last century placing despots in control of the populations. That is why the west is "The Great Satan".
 
kyleb said:
I suspect the implication is that ISS launches are new, handmade rockets that have been petted all the way through the process and therefore have good reliability.

Those ICBM's that have been sitting in a silo or on a mobile launcher for two decades? Not so much, although I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference whether a nuclear strike has the planned 5,000 warheads or only 500 because 90% of the rockets failed.
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If 15 warheads make it through, the EMP issue alone will be a serious problem as recovering the electric grid transformers will be very difficult without the electric grid. It's one of the great weaknesses of our society.
 
Henning said:
Considering they are still making it to the ISS without blowing up, I don't think that is a legitimate position to take.
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I never said their tech doesn't work, just that like the planes, it is not maintained and likely in need of repair. The space program gets the money and attention it needs because it is a source of income and all the world's eyes are on it.
 
Dav8or said:
I never said their tech doesn't work, just that like the planes, it is not maintained and likely in need of repair. The space program gets the money and attention it needs because it is a source of income and all the world's eyes are on it.
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Well, we don't know where they are spending their money. Khrushchev figured out that the greatest value was in missiles, and concentrated spending there. We don't really have anything to indicate that is not also current philosophy, besides, it's not like they can't reassign their space program rockets to an ICBM mission. I'm just saying that discounting the Russian's ability to wreak havoc globally because their navy and air force are in poor condition is a dangerous presumption.
 
Henning said:
Well, we don't know where they are spending their money. Khrushchev figured out that the greatest value was in missiles, and concentrated spending there. We don't really have anything to indicate that is not also current philosophy, besides, it's not like they can't reassign their space program rockets to an ICBM mission. I'm just saying that discounting the Russian's ability to wreak havoc globally because their navy and air force are in poor condition is a dangerous presumption.
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Of course they can wreak havoc. I am not one of those that believes we should confront the Russians, or get involved in Ukraine. They don't really threaten us, or our interests.
 
SbestCFII said:
When the MIG-29 crashed at Paris a couple of decades back, it was discovered that some of it's avionics still used vacuum tubes.
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Hey, don't laugh. Right now the US Navy is paying MS $9M per year just to maintain support of Windows XP. The Russians aren't the only ones trying to keep outdated tech going long past its usefulness.
 
What does it have to do with sanctions and trade restrictions?
 
Dav8or said:
There you go. The state of the "Russian Bear" is becoming apparent. Sanctions and restricted trade do work it seems. If Putin the war lord can't keep his weapons in order, then I have to assume he's struggling. How long can he keep his quest to put the band back together go on? :dunno:
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The problem is the bear still has a large nuclear arsenal.
 
Henning said:
The problem is the bear still has a large nuclear arsenal.
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That is what it is. Don't poke the bear. Putin would never risk complete destruction by using his nukes during his little conquests. He's an egotist, but he's not a mad man. He'll never push the button first.
 
Neal Howard said:
Wasn't it Stalin who said Quantity has a Quality all its own.... or something to that effect?
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True, but what we learned after the collapse of the wall is, they were bluffing. They don't really have that great of a quantity and since that time, they have done little to increase, or replace that gear. So basically, they have neither quality, or quantity.
 
Dav8or said:
That is what it is. Don't poke the bear. Putin would never risk complete destruction by using his nukes during his little conquests. He's an egotist, but he's not a mad man. He'll never push the button first.
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That assumes a lot in Russian internal politics.
 
Henning said:
That assumes a lot in Russian internal politics.
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The Russians aren't ISIS. They have no desire to rush to the afterlife. They know there is no way to just use one little itty bitty nuke and have nobody notice. They know that once one nuke is used, they all get used and Russia and likely the rest of the world is finished. Mutually assured destruction is just as valid today as it ever was, as long as both sides care about continued survival and living.

It's nut jobs like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and the Taliban that you have to keep the nukes away from. They want everybody to die.
 
Dav8or said:
The Russians aren't ISIS. They have no desire to rush to the afterlife. They know there is no way to just use one little itty bitty nuke and have nobody notice. They know that once one nuke is used, they all get used and Russia and likely the rest of the world is finished. Mutually assured destruction is just as valid today as it ever was, as long as both sides care about continued survival and living.

It's nut jobs like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and the Taliban that you have to keep the nukes away from. They want everybody to die.
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The Russians are infiltrated with those like ISIS. You think Russia is homogenous WRT to culture? ISIS and that branch of Islam would rather see the world returned to God than to allow the financial system to continue.
 
Henning said:
The Russians are infiltrated with those like ISIS. You think Russia is homogenous WRT to culture? ISIS and that branch of Islam would rather see the world returned to God than to allow the financial system to continue.
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Really? I haven't heard too much about ISIS infiltrators, or Islamic infiltrators in Russian government. Also, why would God want his failed experiment returned to him/her/it? It's pretty clear God abandoned this Petri dish a long, long time ago... if you believe in this sort of thing.
 
Dav8or said:
Really? I haven't heard too much about ISIS infiltrators, or Islamic infiltrators in Russian government. Also, why would God want his failed experiment returned to him/her/it? It's pretty clear God abandoned this Petri dish a long, long time ago... if you believe in this sort of thing.
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Earth? Hell no, Earth like planets capable of developing a big brained sentient species is relatively rare in a universe and is one of the most valuable things in it. No, we are an unimportant failure on the grad scale as a species,but just a 50,000 year setback to replace.
 
The Russians always had the philosophy of numbers. "Quantity has a quality of its own". I think Lenin said that. Whether or not they could actually put up numbers is another story.

I don't know if warfare will be fought like it has been in the past. We may be dealing with covert stuff, cyberwar, EMP's, etc. Massed, mechanized combined arms armies may be obsolete.
 
I would not say a string of five crashes in a short period is really indicative of anything during when a country is just ramping up into a period of increased militarism.

How many hundreds or thousands of sorties did Russia fly in that period?
 
Anthony said:
The Russians always had the philosophy of numbers. "Quantity has a quality of its own". I think Lenin said that. Whether or not they could actually put up numbers is another story.

I don't know if warfare will be fought like it has been in the past. We may be dealing with covert stuff, cyberwar, EMP's, etc. Massed, mechanized combined arms armies may be obsolete.
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That was a lesson they learned in the Sino-Soviet war where they were over run by an army of pitchforks, wave after endless wave of them. That's how the Soviets won later in WWII.
 
"The Russian Army, being what it is, can't mount an effective show of force beyond the country's borders."

It's kinda hard to reconcile that quote from the article with the invasions of Georgia and Crimea. Maybe that article is just biased?
 
NoHeat said:
"The Russian Army, being what it is, can't mount an effective show of force beyond the country's borders."

It's kinda hard to reconcile that quote from the article with the invasions of Georgia and Crimea. Maybe that article is just biased?
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It's just a propaganda piece, the question is why choose this bias?
 
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