Armored car driving

mikea

mikea

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
16,975
Location
Lake County, IL
Display Name
Display name:
iWin
Last night when I drove home, ... we had a couple inches of freezing rain that turned to snow and there were many, many ice rinks at intersections.

At least 3 times I had to stand on the brakes and pray to Our Lady of ABS. Once I was sure I was going to hit the car stopped in front of me and tried to aim for the ditch. It worked out.

BUT I have the maroons in the mega-SUVs tailgating me with the laser-strength headlights filling my mirrors and interior, even on two lane roads where the goof can just go around me I was sure I was going to have one in the trunk eventually.

I watched a car slide through the intersection on his red light on into our road. We hadn't gone yet, so he got by. Another guy downtown pulled into my lane making a right on red barely 500 feet in front of me and was weaving all over the lane and nearly hit the parked cars, 4 wheels moving or not.

As we all know, they're super safe. You don't have to worry about nothin' that's out there. It has 16 air bags so you don't have to strap the kids in. We also know the 4x4 and all wheel drives means you don't get stuck but doesn't mean you can stop. Last night I witnessed the solution to that gotcha: as I came up about a half mile back from a light controlled intersection that went green - with another rear bumper close watcher with me - I watched as Mr./Ms. Super Safe from 1/4 mile back on the intersecting road just ran the opposite red light. :yikes: There was no sign that it even tried to stop. ("Of course! What'dya expect me to do? It's too slippery to stop!") That'll solve it, I guess. After all, if all goes wrong nobody can hurt ya. I wonder what happens if there's another one doing the same on the other road. :dunno:

When I got home right where that 150 is chocked on the lake, there were flashing lights and a car being pulled up onto a flat bed tow truck. It had rear-ended a bus.

I have to learn that these "quick stops" in my new hood are really far apart and driving so much at night, even in good conditions, is a hazard I should minimize.

The Volvo, with 8 air bags, is back on my next car wish list.
 
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I almost went off the road three times last night. That was doing 25mph on RT12 BTW!

In my Cherokee (Jeep not Piper) nonetheless. I still had a few people pass me like you described above. I saw one of them go into a ditch near Cuba rd in Deer Park. I got to call 911 for him too. It helped my sense of superiority a lot to be able to do that!!

Intersections were really bad last night. I could not believe how slippery it was. It took me 1.5 hours to come home from KORD last night at 10pm. Normally that would be a 45 minute drive.
 
smigaldi said:
BTW Mike, why did you post this in SZ. This is a good HT topic IMHO
Click to expand...

Due to the controversial SUV vs. mere mortals debate, Mr. Jeep. :rolleyes:

I moved the thread. Now I'll have to move it back when there are complaints.
 
mikea said:
Due to the controversial SUV vs. mere mortals debate, Mr. Jeep. :rolleyes:

I moved the thread. Now I'll have to move it back when there are complaints.
Click to expand...
But as an MC member you should be used never being able to do anything that does not result in a complaint! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Last night the roads around here ended up being pretty nasty. I actually needed to use the 4x4 to get up the hill into my neighborhood, and one car I saw didn't make it up - it was there this morning when I left for work. It sounds like y'all in Chicago had it worse, though.

Remember, the problem is the drivers, not the vehicles.
 
mikea said:
Agreed. The problem is also the kinds of vehicles the lousy drivers often choose to drive.
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This is the same argument Ken's making against FIKI Cirruses, and just as silly. It's not the tool, but the hand that holds it.
 
jmaynard said:
This is the same argument Ken's making against FIKI Cirruses, and just as silly. It's not the tool, but the hand that holds it.
Click to expand...
Naw it can be the tool sometimes
backwardgImage1.jpg


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
fgcason said:
If you need ABS brakes, it's already too late.
...
Click to expand...


I didn't realize that the old car had working ABS brakes until recently when they started working. On my Mustang of the same year the ABS light came on at about 6 months out of warranty and I was told by a mechanic to consider Ford ABS of that era perpetually broken. I never got a round tuit to cover the light with tape.

I did allow plenty of interval and kept the speed down, which led the tailgating because Mr. Dumbo behind me thought I was being pokey. That BTW, happens even when I doing speed limit +7 MPH on dry pavement days. The nerve of those 35MPH and 45MPH speed zones.

My evidence that I done OK is that, once again, I got the car in the driveway without hitting anything.
 
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mikea said:
On my Mustang of the same year the ABS light came on at about 6 months out of warranty and I was told by a mechanic to consider Ford ABS of that era perpetually broken.
Click to expand...

"Dear Mr. Andrews:

We couldn't fix your brakes, so we made your horn louder.

Sincerely,
Your Ford Service Advisor"


Trapper John
 
Last night was fun....it's always neat to see the speedo drop to zero when lightly applying the brake to slow down:yikes:

Needless to say I was really glad for my manual transmission yesterday. Plus no longer living in Chicago helps the traffic aggravation factor immensely:D
 
Well, the real problem with praying to your Lady of ABS is that most of them aren't designed to help you on snow and ice. Just like with any other tool, you need to know its limitations. It's not black magic, it's a computer program and it can only work as well as it's programmed.

Generally, snow/ice is not where ABS normally shines. It tends to do its best on dry pavement and sometimes on wet pavement. Once again, it depends on the system and how it's programmed.

Once I was listening to a professional autocross driver speak at some auto event I was at, and someone was asking about purposely making the ABS kick in. I liked the way he put it: "ABS is the car's way of saying 'Oh crap, the person driving me has no idea what he's doing, so I need to intervene here.'" He basically said what I've been saying for years and that most people don't understand - it's a tool, you need to know how to use it and what it can do, and it's not a substitue for knowing how to drive. Basically, the way most people use it is the same most people use 4x4 - "Oh, I have 4x4 so I can go as fast as I want in bad weather."
 
jmaynard said:
This is the same argument Ken's making against FIKI Cirruses, and just as silly. It's not the tool, but the hand that holds it.
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to make the comparison, but I was thinking it. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, the real problem with praying to your Lady of ABS is that most of them aren't designed to help you on snow and ice. Just like with any other tool, you need to know its limitations. It's not black magic, it's a computer program and it can only work as well as it's programmed.
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It depends on how it is implemented. It is very likely that ABS can do a better job than me (depending on the circumstances). I have four wheels all with varying traction. I have one brake petal. There is no way for me to detect traction or adjust brakes on a per wheel basis. ABS can do this. I can't.

I am confident that I can program a better braking system that can outperform myself as it has control over every wheel while I don't.

Of course..get rid of all traction (solid ice) and that per wheel ability isn't going to do much for you. It can sort of help you steer but it depends on your vehicles mass.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, the real problem with praying to your Lady of ABS is that most of them aren't designed to help you on snow and ice. Just like with any other tool, you need to know its limitations. It's not black magic, it's a computer program and it can only work as well as it's programmed.

Generally, snow/ice is not where ABS normally shines. It tends to do its best on dry pavement and sometimes on wet pavement. Once again, it depends on the system and how it's programmed.

Once I was listening to a professional autocross driver speak at some auto event I was at, and someone was asking about purposely making the ABS kick in. I liked the way he put it: "ABS is the car's way of saying 'Oh crap, the person driving me has no idea what he's doing, so I need to intervene here.'" He basically said what I've been saying for years and that most people don't understand - it's a tool, you need to know how to use it and what it can do, and it's not a substitue for knowing how to drive. Basically, the way most people use it is the same most people use 4x4 - "Oh, I have 4x4 so I can go as fast as I want in bad weather."
Click to expand...

Just having to pump non-ABS brakes is the driver's way of saying,"Oh crap, the person driving had no idea the condition the road is in here hasn't got enough traction to stop the car's momentum in time at the speed it was going."

ABS did work on ice. I dunno why it wouldn't work as well as brake pumping.

When I was getting like 0 traction and maybe 300 feet behind the car stopped at the light, using the ABS with foot firmly to the floor did help keeping me straight. At first I mixed in the the modulate and manual pump thing - and eventually standfing on it the vibrating brake went down a lot (?), and I stopped a car length back. I had some steering control throughout as intended, too.

I'll buy the idea that ABS works doing the pumping thing faster than you can and on only the wheels that are slipping - which the driver can't do - to maintain whatever traction there is to be had. My minivan doesn't have it, and I have sometimes ended up nearly rolling through lights. Yeah I know. Slow down. I have to realize which vehicle I'm in at the time. :redface:
 
mikea said:
Last night when I drove home, ... we had a couple inches of freezing rain that turned to snow and there were many, many ice rinks at intersections.

At least 3 times I had to stand on the brakes and pray to Our Lady of ABS. Once I was sure I was going to hit the car stopped in front of me and tried to aim for the ditch. It worked out.

BUT I have the maroons in the mega-SUVs tailgating me with the laser-strength headlights filling my mirrors and interior, even on two lane roads where the goof can just go around me I was sure I was going to have one in the trunk eventually.

I watched a car slide through the intersection on his red light on into our road. We hadn't gone yet, so he got by. Another guy downtown pulled into my lane making a right on red barely 500 feet in front of me and was weaving all over the lane and nearly hit the parked cars, 4 wheels moving or not.

As we all know, they're super safe. You don't have to worry about nothin' that's out there. It has 16 air bags so you don't have to strap the kids in. We also know the 4x4 and all wheel drives means you don't get stuck but doesn't mean you can stop. Last night I witnessed the solution to that gotcha: as I came up about a half mile back from a light controlled intersection that went green - with another rear bumper close watcher with me - I watched as Mr./Ms. Super Safe from 1/4 mile back on the intersecting road just ran the opposite red light. :yikes: That'll solve it, I guess. After all, if all goes wrong nobody can hurt ya. I wonder what happens if there's another one doing the same on the other road. :dunno:

When I got home right where that 150 is chocked on the lake, there were flashing lights and a car being pulled up onto a flat bed tow truck. It had rear-ended a bus.

I have to learn that these "quick stops" in my new hood are really far apart and driving so much at night, even in good conditions, is a hazard I should minimize.

The Volvo, with 8 air bags, is back on my next car wish list.
Click to expand...

I've found that a set of really good winter tires is better protection than airbags in most cases. You still can't violate the laws of physics but you can cheat a little.
 
mikea said:
When I got home right where that 150 is chocked on the lake, there were flashing lights and a car being pulled up onto a flat bed tow truck. It had rear-ended a bus.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.

A *car*... rear-ended a *bus*. Gee, I wonder whose fault that was? :dunno: :rolleyes:
 
Hehe that reminds me of the story may Uncle told me a few years ago. He was doing pro bono legal defense work as a law student in traffic court. He got this case of a drunk lady who rear ended a PARKED bus. The best part of it was that when the cops took her statement she claimed that "The bus just stopped!".
 
vontresc said:
Hehe that reminds me of the story may Uncle told me a few years ago. He was doing pro bono legal defense work as a law student in traffic court. He got this case of a drunk lady who rear ended a PARKED bus. The best part of it was that when the cops took her statement she claimed that "The bus just stopped!".
Click to expand...

That sounds like when my grandmother said the brick wall she ran into came out of nowhere.

They must have fast masons in Virginia (where she lived). :D
 
lancefisher said:
I've found that a set of really good winter tires is better protection than airbags in most cases. You still can't violate the laws of physics but you can cheat a little.
Click to expand...
True, good tires... and a clue helps, too. :D
Even if your ride is a tank, if it's icy out there, you simply cannot drive as fast as you would on dry pavement or even rain-wet pavement. I love these folks who base their driving habits on how crashproof their vehicles are... killing someone else in a smaller vehicle, or a pedestrian, does not seem to be something they're concerned about, but encountering a semi, or a wall, or a guardrail near a steep dropoff might change that attitude a little bit. :D Anybody who thinks SUVs can't be crushed, or burned, or experience impact forces that will overwhelm the ability of the airbags is kidding themselves.
As Chuck Norris said in the deodorant commercial: "the best defense is no offense"...:D

Slow down, think ahead, play nice.
 
vontresc said:
Hehe that reminds me of the story may Uncle told me a few years ago. He was doing pro bono legal defense work as a law student in traffic court. He got this case of a drunk lady who rear ended a PARKED bus. The best part of it was that when the cops took her statement she claimed that "The bus just stopped!".
Click to expand...

For several years I seemed to be getting rear ended way more often than my share with most events occurring in a way that was clearly not my fault (not stopping quickly etc). The worst one by far in terms of damage, potential for harm (fortunately my passenger and I were unhurt), and lack of my culpability was when a drunk plowed into me and booted me all the way across an intersection. I was stopped at a red light and had been sitting there for at least a minute or two, there was no one in the lane next to mine going the same direction, the light had been red since before I stopped and wasn't about to turn green, and there was traffic crossing the intersection on the other street that we somehow missed. The other driver attempted to drive away but since the front half of his car was pretty well trashed (he was going 30-35 when he hit me without braking) that turned out to be beyond his ability. The story got worse from there too. The driver was totally blitzed on alcohol, two other drivers stopped and offered statements about this driver's weaving, tailgating, and wildly varying speeds before the crash, but he didn't even get a ticket for the accident, attempting to flee the scene, or DWI because the cop felt sorry for him.
 
lancefisher said:
I was stopped at a red light and had been sitting there for at least a minute or two, there was no one in the lane next to mine going the same direction, the light had been red since before I stopped and wasn't about to turn green, and there was traffic crossing the intersection on the other street that we somehow missed. The other driver attempted to drive away but since the front half of his car was pretty well trashed (he was going 30-35 when he hit me without braking) that turned out to be beyond his ability. The story got worse from there too. The driver was totally blitzed on alcohol, two other drivers stopped and offered statements about this driver's weaving, tailgating, and wildly varying speeds before the crash, but he didn't even get a ticket for the accident, attempting to flee the scene, or DWI because the cop felt sorry for him.
Click to expand...

:hairraise: :yikes: :mad2::mad3::mad3::mad3:

Was it the same cop that rammed the guy recently? :rolleyes: You seem to have more than your share of bad ones up there.
 
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