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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by DMD3., Jun 12, 2015.
now you used the word "most".....which ones are not underpowered? F-4, F-15E, F-111, F-35....?
I new a guy who crashed in a Tomahawk and almost died. He was on his first solo, hyperventilated from the excitement, passed out and did a descending turn into the ground from pattern altitude, opps. The aircraft rolled up into a ball of aluminum. EMS had to cut him out. He broke nearly every bone in his body, but lived. True story
See, Tomahawks are dangerous.
Having flown both the F-111 and the F-4, I can say with assurance that neither was ever considered a "2-seat trainer", and unless the design changed since I worked on the program, neither is the F-35. Now if you want to talk about the T-37/38/45, those would be 2-seat trainers.
I flew one in 1977/78 during my primary training. It was nice to fly; but part of the pts in Canada was incipient spins. i personally did not like its spin characteristics.
Just remember the ADs on the VS are from spins and their recovery. and why we have repetitive inspections of that area.
If you ever have the chance, go spin a PA-38, but watch the tail during the spin and recovery, you'll never do it again unless you have a death wish.
It's impressive how much shake rattle and roll happens back there.
They are from the tail buffeting at high AOA. Funny enough, the worst outcome has been the the start of a crack.
F-15A (and I think some F/A 18) vertical stabs had similar issues due to buffeting at high AOA.
It's funny because it's true.
Of course, that's good experience. Folks who learn in 172 with just the instructor or solo, get a hard lesson when they decide to load it up with three of their buddies right after they get their license.
Our flying club used to do a "full gross" 172 stage check as part of the syllabus. I've been along on a few of those as ballast. The scary one was when the student tried to demonstrate a departure stall just after takeoff. That is when I heard what I refer to as the "CFI death scream." This is a noise he makes only when he is fighting the controls trying to avoid imminent death.
I think the words were something like "If you drop this thing on its tail we're all going to die."
Hmm, I slightly disagree w/ C172. I've never noticed much difference in handling on a C172 between solo and 4-on w/full tanks. Definitely don't see any hard lessons there.
Great little plane, I instructed in some of the very first ones when they were new . Spin recovery is as with any plane just a little interesting if you look at the tail in the spin.
You'd crack too if you got hit by a tornado every flight
and his LEX fence
Are you implying that I'm not cracked?
There are a lot of folks out there that have other than positive things to say about them… These are usually the ones that have never flown them..
I have over 300 hours in these planes and I believe a dozen or so spins.. And these were in some of the first planes to come out of Lock Haven before all the hype...
What some have said here regarding this plane… if you have any sloppy habits… they’ll be exposed real quick. And it can be a good IFR trainer/platform if the rigging is right and true.
Yes the wing has an 11,000 hour service limit, as does the Beech Skipper and a few others. This does not have to do with the plane itself… It’s something the FAA came up with for all planes certified after I believe 1975 or something… I had asked as to how this is a not a problem with the 152 and was told the wing was the same as the 150… Don’t hold my hand to the fire on this... With that, there is a kit to extend the wing life to 18,500 hours…
You can get a great deal on them nowadays… just make sure AD 82-27-08 has been looked after. Some folks have rescued these from the flight schools and have put a lot of love into them..
Umm, you were lucky. A lot of students learn this the hard way especially at higher density altitudes. And given how sloppy most students are with trim, butting 350 pounds more in the back seat will cause a substantial change.
I've always thought that the Tommy would make an ideal short distance commuter plane. As an IFR platform, would you recommend an auto pilot for day to day flying?
Aircraft certified under the newer CAR23 have wing life limits. The low-wing Commander singles, for example, have wing life limits of 6,945 hours to over 19,000 hours, depending on model.
The C-152 not only has the same wing as the C-150, it is certified under the C-150's type certificate, and thus is governed by the old rules.
No... Tomahawks are ok.
Gotta reference for that?
Is it just the wing spar on the 58P? I thought the pressure vessel turned into a pumpkin as well.
I have seen some owners put a lot into these planes, duel Garmin 430s etc.... but have never seen an auto pilot...
That said, wouldn't be something I would do... I would rather beef up the HP on the 0-235 to 125 HP and give her a little more umph to keep ATC happy.
The Sparrowhawk conversion is nice, very small improvement on speed, but a nice affect on rate of climb and T/O performance.
I'd say that 85% of the part 23 certified aircraft out there do not have any life limited airframe parts.
Pretty much everything certified from 1968 and on are all part 23. The entire Grumman AA1, AA5, entire Cessna 177, 177B and 177RG are all part 23 certified.
Pretty sure the AA1 has a life limit on the spar.
Not on the type certificate.
Might be the 5 then, I'm pretty sure one of the two has a life limit on a spar, Ron would know, I believe it was he who posted it.
There it is, I thought one did.
The AA-1's have no limited life components.
The AA-5x's have seven -- the center wing spar, the two outer wing spars, and the four wing shoulder bolts. The spars are 12,000 and 12,500 hours, which isn't much of a problem given the fleet is mostly running around 4000 hours. The shoulder bolts are 7250 hours, and cost about $150 for the complete set of four, plus a couple of hours for the work, and many of them were changed out early as part of an AD about 15 years ago.
Question out of curiosity, where is the spar serial numbers located, and are the time life records required to be kept in the Aircraft history records? Can they be tracked as the AFTT, went they have never been changed?