Archer landed long

I agree that the wing shows signs on significant damage. Ribs and spar are quite probably structurally compromised. Contemplating flying that plane is sheer lunacy.
 
The adjuster called me back yesterday, first thing is he wants the plane taken apart and transported back to our airport. Then we need to get repair cost figured out and send him pictures and a official club roster. Also wants a copy of the logbook page showing the plane had a new prop, and that the last engine rebuild was a FOH. The fun is just starting.

Mike
 
These things don't always turn out so bad. Get the financial accounting and estimates figured out. Then you can make your report to the feds. Don't be in such a hurry to burn this guy at the stake like many of the people on the board are all ready to do. For sure the guy will be getting some in depth recurrent training. Better cover your butt too. If he was in any violation of the club rules regarding currency and you let him fly, hello liability.

If the guy in question is such a poor pilot why was he flying a club airplane?
 
Hi Guys
We will be reporting this accident to the FAA and the NTSB. The drama will be on going for a while. For sure a 709 ride and of course the club will be making him go to a CFI for more training.

Mike

His logbook should show more CFI work on all types of landings, and ground school on computing required landing distances BEFORE he meets the FSDO for that 709 ride.
 
Sounds like the adjuster decided it wasn't an instant write-off.

He needs proof of the prop and engine age to properly determine their value based on hoes flown since new or since overhaul. Insurance is not to make you better, only to get you back where you were.

An engine with 1800 hrs to a 2000hr TBO is worth a lot less than a 250 hr engine.
 
These things don't always turn out so bad. Get the financial accounting and estimates figured out. Then you can make your report to the feds. Don't be in such a hurry to burn this guy at the stake like many of the people on the board are all ready to do. For sure the guy will be getting some in depth recurrent training. Better cover your butt too. If he was in any violation of the club rules regarding currency and you let him fly, hello liability.

If the guy in question is such a poor pilot why was he flying a club airplane?
He was current, about ten hours in the last 2 months. We aren't ready to burn him at the stake, things happen sometime and we all will learn from this. Yes we for sure will make him get some more training, as I told him yesterday but by the grace of god this could have happen to any one of us. We just all need to laern from this so we don't have a repeat.

Mike
 
He needs proof of the prop and engine age to properly determine their value based on hoes flown since new or since overhaul. Insurance is not to make you better, only to get you back where you were.

An engine with 1800 hrs to a 2000hr TBO is worth a lot less than a 250 hr engine.
New prop with around 15-20 hours on it, engine time is around 800 on a FOH. All of it in the log books as they should be.

Mike
 
Sounds like the adjuster decided it wasn't an instant write-off.
He wants pictures, copies of some info in the log books and cost to repair it. He wants to get it back down state to a secure hanger. We pulled all of the radios so they don't disappear until we can get it trucked down here.

Mike
 
Please make sure the ELT batteries are removed on the truck.

Been there, chased that. ;)

Usually to Beegle's lot across the road at KGXY.
 
Sorry I'm late. Glad you're not burning the guy. Yes I question his decision to want to fly it home, but for different reasons.

How many of us as youngsters got in trouble, fell off a bike, got into a fight...what did we do after? Went home! That's our training. He was hoping that someone who was more experienced than he would sooth his broken ego and tell him it's not that bad or 'it'll buff right out'. He wanted to pretend it didn't happen TO HIM. For that thinking, I understand (not condone). If anything it's THIS thinking that many (including those who have gasoline cans and lighters at the ready) need to disabuse themselves of, otherwise there will be those that will fly it home.
 
We just replaced the prop that was just a bit north of $4000K. It didn't have 20 hours on a new prop.

I know of a club owned 182 that had a prop strike with 10 hours on a freshly rebuilt engine. I heard yesterday that the crankshaft is cracked.

On the bright side, the prop's getting replaced with a 3-blade.
 
Can someone explain "dragging it in"? I'm not familiar with this term.

Power on approaches that would leave you well short of the runway if the engine quit. As compared to gliding approaches at idle power.
 
Power on approaches that would leave you well short of the runway if the engine quit. As compared to gliding approaches at idle power.

Ah ok. Thanks.

Just went up for my second solo flight yesterday. I spent a portion of it in the pattern trying to figure out where to make my turns to base so that I don't have to use power on final. Seems like when I fly with my instructor we always have to add a little power on final. Didn't know there was a name for it.
 
When I had a flight school I had a renter (former student, he got his ppl that day) start a brand new 172 with about 220 hours on it with a tow bar attached. We never found the handle... Insurance company was great about the claim. Then raised all of the rates the next year. Put us out of business (we had two claims that year, stupid renter tricks).
 
When I had a flight school I had a renter (former student, he got his ppl that day) start a brand new 172 with about 220 hours on it with a tow bar attached. We never found the handle... Insurance company was great about the claim. Then raised all of the rates the next year. Put us out of business (we had two claims that year, stupid renter tricks).
We haven't had a claim in over twenty years but we are fearfull of what will happen when our policy comes due next spring.

Mike
 
Insuring a club is an underwriter's nightmare. They have NO control over who is flying, their training or recurrency.

The key to a club's survival is NOT expanding membership. It is the careful selection of members that makes or breaks.
 
Insuring a club is an underwriter's nightmare. They have NO control over who is flying, their training or recurrency.

The key to a club's survival is NOT expanding membership. It is the careful selection of members that makes or breaks.

We had a club that had a "high" time requirement (no students, 100 TT and Private rated minimum) that had every pilot listed as named-insured, and all hours documented every year. Insurer loved us.

There were roughly 100 members. I was the Secretary for a while, and the grounded vs. non-grounded rules were strict. Not turning in your yearly numbers was instant grounding and a required CFI ride at your expense. Folks tended to get their numbers in, go figure.

We also tracked their BFR dates, as reported. Expired BFR didn't mean a club CFI ride again on top of the BFR, but your name was pulled from the roster and you couldn't schedule an aircraft. (If getting current in the club's aircraft after expiring, the CFI had to call the answering service to book the airplane. You wouldn't be listed in the roster again until the next month without someone calling the answering service to approve it, and that meant a little chat about why you were wasting volunteer's time by letting current lapse. Not viciously, but a little chat.

We wanted to be clear that going out of currency was something "painful" enough that folks didn't do it. Worked pretty well. Make the things you want negatively reinforced, significantly negative, and folks will take the easier path and just stay current and send in their numbers.

(This was also in the days when the club did all business by snail mail. No e-mail. Better learn to mail the reply "coupon" from the monthly newsletter or the one reminding you personally that your data was coming due, in time for USPS to deliver...)

I still wonder if something similar could be done today. It was a unique organization. It was also no -profit and a registers 501(c)3 or (c)7, I forget which.
 
We had a club that had a "high" time requirement (no students, 100 TT and Private rated minimum) that had every pilot listed as named-insured, and all hours documented every year. Insurer loved us.

There were roughly 100 members. I was the Secretary for a while, and the grounded vs. non-grounded rules were strict. Not turning in your yearly numbers was instant grounding and a required CFI ride at your expense. Folks tended to get their numbers in, go figure.

We also tracked their BFR dates, as reported. Expired BFR didn't mean a club CFI ride again on top of the BFR, but your name was pulled from the roster and you couldn't schedule an aircraft. (If getting current in the club's aircraft after expiring, the CFI had to call the answering service to book the airplane. You wouldn't be listed in the roster again until the next month without someone calling the answering service to approve it, and that meant a little chat about why you were wasting volunteer's time by letting current lapse. Not viciously, but a little chat.

We wanted to be clear that going out of currency was something "painful" enough that folks didn't do it. Worked pretty well. Make the things you want negatively reinforced, significantly negative, and folks will take the easier path and just stay current and send in their numbers.

(This was also in the days when the club did all business by snail mail. No e-mail. Better learn to mail the reply "coupon" from the monthly newsletter or the one reminding you personally that your data was coming due, in time for USPS to deliver...)

I still wonder if something similar could be done today. It was a unique organization. It was also no -profit and a registers 501(c)3 or (c)7, I forget which.
Hi Denver, we do most of those things now, expect of doing everything by snail mail we do it by email. We make reservations online and any board member can block someone from the online schedule. Most of our members have bben flying for a number of years, we have 15 members and two planes.We are also a 501 c. Insurance use to make us track hours but the last two years they haven't asked for that info.

Mike
 
Hi Denver, we do most of those things now, expect of doing everything by snail mail we do it by email. We make reservations online and any board member can block someone from the online schedule. Most of our members have bben flying for a number of years, we have 15 members and two planes.We are also a 501 c. Insurance use to make us track hours but the last two years they haven't asked for that info.

Bummer. Sounds like insurance companies have gotten stingier. Oh well...
 
That wing seals the deal; it is by any measure "major" damage.

How can you overrun 3,500' in an Archer?

That does not require a 'major repair' though depending on how you go about it. I don't see it requiring reporting.
 
Until you have the entire job completed and the airplane repaired you won't have a financial number to qualify the accident reporting criteria. Often times the estimates exceed the actual damage repair.
 
That does not require a 'major repair' though depending on how you go about it. I don't see it requiring reporting.

Wrinkle over the spar, moneys on a bent/cracked spar. That is major anyway you slice it.
 
Wrinkle over the spar, moneys on a bent/cracked spar. That is major anyway you slice it.

Not if you bolt in a replacement wing I don't think. Remember, the determinant is requiring a 'major repair', I haven't read it in a while, but this can all be repaired by buying used assembles and not doing any major repairs, but I may be forgetting something.
 
So what did the Kiwi say when he walked in to Hooters?

(Just give me a couple wings!)
 
Not if you bolt in a replacement wing I don't think. Remember, the determinant is requiring a 'major repair', I haven't read it in a while, but this can all be repaired by buying used assembles and not doing any major repairs, but I may be forgetting something.

As i understand that's correct for logbook purposes, but no bearing on NTSB reporting requirements
 
We haven't had a claim in over twenty years but we are fearfull of what will happen when our policy comes due next spring.

Mike

This is why most schools and clubs require renters insurance. I would implement that as a requirement.
 
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