anybody watching the trial

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by eman1200, Oct 17, 2022.

  1. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    of that dooshbag murderer who drove his car through a parade of people and is attempting to defend himself? he is such a POS and disconnected from any form of reality it's painful to watch more than a few minutes of him speaking. I'm all for letting the justice system do it's thing, but this is just dragging on and on. fry the fker already!
     
  2. Oldmanb777

    Oldmanb777 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Let him out, it wasn't his fault, he had a bad child hood, so at least several more chances are in order. Sucks but its the way it is!
     
  3. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Ban assault cars!
     
  4. 2-Bit Speed

    2-Bit Speed Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No one needs more than four cylinders!!!

    To Eman's original question, my usual haunts aren't keeping up with it and I don't really want to watch 6-8 hours of courtroom footage a day.
     
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  5. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I watch about 15 minutes a day. I can't stand more than that. you don't really need to watch more than that to know what's going on.
     
  6. 2-Bit Speed

    2-Bit Speed Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I watched some of the preliminary stuff and it looked like a kindergarten teacher having to rein in a disgruntled child.
     
  7. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The guy is a real piece of work for sure. Choosing to represent himself, then declaring himself "a sovereign". Your description of "disconnected from any form of reality" is right on.

    I've only loosely been following it, but I think it was last night that I saw the state was expected to rest soon, and that the perp had subpoenaed 10 people as witnesses. I'm curious what his strategy will be, if he even has one.
     
  8. geneseib

    geneseib Line Up and Wait

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    Most everything on TV is disconnected from any form of reality. Turn it off.
     
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  9. Daleandee

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    Even if they manage to get a conviction it means little. How can we claim to have any sort of a justice system when Dillon Roof is still above ground and taking nourishment with no date set for his extermination?

    Wasn't it Judge Roy Bean that said, "we're gonna have us a fair trial followed by a first class hanging!"
     
  10. luvflyin

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    What trial? Link ??
     
  11. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    Diminished capacity, inadequate representation, a lifetime of appeals.
     
  12. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    search YouTube for darrell brooks
     
  13. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh, that guy. Wonder if he has a brother

     
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  14. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    what an absolute POS

     
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  15. cowman

    cowman En-Route

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    I really haven't been but there's something I like to point out anytime we're talking about a trial. When our justice system is working as it should, it errs on the side of letting the guilty go free rather than punishing the innocent. Annoying as that may be in some cases, it beats the heck out of the alternative.
     
  16. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    I agree that caution is paramount when it comes to severe punishment but the frustration from seeing a known, confessed, and proven murderer be so coddled with appeals and stays for many years just makes no sense. See post # 9 of mine. I bring that up because it was local to me and one of those folks was a coworker. I was actually in the initial call for the jury pool but they quickly filled the available slots before they got to me. It would have been difficult to see him in a court room and not wind up in jail myself ...
     
  17. AKiss20

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    Problem with “known, confessed, and proven” is that we have a long history of coerced confessions and false convictions that were “proven beyond reasonable doubt” that were only shown to be invalid years or decades later when technology improved or other information came to light that had not been known or was previously buried and exonerated the convicted. Not saying that’s true here, I don’t know jack about this trial and frankly am not interested in it or any high profile criminal trials, but just saying that wherever there are humans there are errors and there are pressures to convict that can result in innocent people being wrongly punished. Our police are particularly well known for their ability to coerce a confession from the innocent. Some interesting reading on coerced/false confessions

    https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/False-Confessions-.aspx
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2022
  18. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    If you were to look at the killer I referenced you would see that while I'm all about making sure the innocent go free ... this particular case was quite different. As he was killing people in front of witnesses he told one of them that he would leave them alive to be able to tell his story. I get it that sometimes mistakes are made but when such a horror is known, confessed, and proven a sentence should be given and carried out.

    There is another thread on here about the theft of avionics in one of our most respected crime laden cities. What will happen to these thieves if they are ever caught? Maybe a couple of years in a cell with AC and three squares a day, a gym to work out in, cable TV, etc. I'm not suggesting that these be put to death but if they were stealing horses in the wild west ...
     
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  19. AKiss20

    AKiss20 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m not interested in learning about this case but if it is really that clear cut he will eventually see justice via a conviction Modulo any royal screwups from the prosecution. Not really an argument for dismantling the protections we have established over decades of mistakes IMO. You are free to disagree with me.
     
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  20. guest user

    guest user Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Our system is the way it is because of people rushing to punish obviously guilty individuals. If you'll bother to do some research on our Criminal Justice system, you will see where your type of reasoning was misapplied and resulted in several innocent people being executed. After all, it was known, confessed, and proven. Dillon Roof is not the first monster, nor will he be the last.

    However, lets do the PoA thing, and solve the problem before us.

    First, unlike AKiss20, I am familiar w/ the Dylann Roof case. Because of this, I have no doubt that justice will be served, just not as fast as some may like. So do not construe any of the below as support for him.

    Premise:
    There should be two layers of justice. One for normal people like you and I, the other for monsters, such as Roof.
    (What? You don't like the idea of there being two defined different layers of justice?)

    The first layer would get the normal number of appeals, required reviews, etc.
    The second layer will not. They will be taken out of the court room, straight to old sparky or a gurney and sent on to their maker. No appeal, no last meal, do not pass go.
    (Surely no argument can be made against this, or can it?)

    One problem that I can see, how do we differentiate those who get fast tracked and those more normal people?

    - Perhaps media coverage. The bigger deal the media makes it, the bigger the monster.
    -- Nah, we've seen cases where the media has blown things up out of proportion.

    - Perhaps number of people killed or injured.
    -- Where do we make the cutoff? 5, 10, 3? Are you really ready to tell the friends and family of the victim's that yes, it is horrible, but your victim's killer isn't a monster because he didn't kill enough people?
    -- Probably best not to go down that path

    - How about based on public outcry?
    -- Nah, because at that point it becomes mob mentality that dictates how a person is tried, this is kinda what got us where we are today.

    - How about based upon the recommendation by arresting agency?
    -- Too many cases of corruption and incompetence for people to be trusting this situation

    - Other possibilities and reasons against them left as an exercise for the reader.

    -------------

    A second problem, is our jurisprudence. We have two equal problems but that are essential to American jurisprudence.
    1) Innocent until proven guilty. This has to exist, or else we end up w/ guilty until proven innocent, which, incidentally, is the approach you took toward Dillon Roof.
    - Does this mean some guilty people get found not guilty? Absolutely it does. However, I find it a better solution than innocent people being convicted. (A look at the reality, however, shows we still do convict innocent people, so even being as slow as we are, we still get it wrong)
    2) Equal justice under the law. We have to allow equal treatment or else we run into the issues of deciding who gets the 'expedited' justice and who doesn't, all of which are ripe for abuse.

    --------------

    In closing, I reiterate that I am familiar with the Dylann Roof case, and I have no doubt that ultimately justice will be served.

    As a personal note, I have had two of my friends meet untimely violent deaths at the hands of other humans, so I am not unaware of the emotions this situation can bring.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
  21. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Pattern Altitude

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    unrelated, but related....
    NSFW



    "A faithful, word-for-word recreation of one colorful day in the American court system."
     
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  22. JScarry

    JScarry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    He’s doing his defense right now. It’s clear that no one should represent themselves.
     
  23. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    You & I are not so far apart on what we believe. My only point was that when/if just punishment is deserved beyond any shadow of a doubt ... the extermination of such vile killers from the planet should not take another 20 + years. In the case of Roof there is overwhelming evidence that his crime was not only cold blooded and premeditated but that he had hoped to start a race war by his horrendous actions.

    Sorry to distract from the OPs thread ...
     
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  24. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    We don't disagree. It's just that many people are frustrated that justice is not being served on any level. If there is any doubt I'm all for searching for the truth as there have been a few cases where the courts got it wrong.

    Was OJ guilty? How about Casey Anthony? Was justice served? I don't know the answers to those questions and apparently neither does anyone else. So no conviction in those cases was the right thing to do ...
     
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  25. JScarry

    JScarry Pre-takeoff checklist

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  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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  27. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    8:26:45
     
  28. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So I’ve been googling this guy. All kinds of hits about the trial. But what I can’t find is why he did it. Did he just freak out and do it randomly? Did he have an agenda? Like some kind of it’s us against them statement?
     
  29. Bob Noel

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    kind of like a trainwreck, but not as interesting...
     
  30. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    we're not allowed to talk about it. we're only allowed to hear it over, and over, and over, and over, when it's the other way around.
     
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  31. cowman

    cowman En-Route

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    Ok, I wasn't sure who this was at first but I remember the incident. Yeah he probably deserves whatever happens to him.

    I just have a different take on the whole justice thing, I've never really derived any sense of satisfaction from someone getting convicted that other people seem to feel. In this case it would probably be a shrug and "guess he deserves it". Some others I just kinda feel bad for them.

    Don't mistake me for saying we don't need to punish people for crimes, especially stuff like murder. We obviously do, I just don't find satisfaction in it if that makes any sense. And if anyone wants me to pontificate on the likely reason I feel this way I can tell a long story about a car accident a close friend of mine got into in high school and how I watched the "justice" from that incident impact his life.
     
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  32. guest user

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    And then, there is this side of it. The US justice system has excesses on both sides. Too lenient in some cases, and over enthusiastic in others. I have seen both sides, and I agree with you.

    We have seen the "tough on crime" approach which frequently goes further than needed with long lasting, but then we have the current "prosecute few crimes and then only lightly" approach. Both should be rejected as they do a disservice to the goals of justice.

    I can understand the disillusion with the system, it was created by humans after all.
     
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  33. Archer Jack

    Archer Jack Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Is that anything like a douchebag? :dunno:
     
  34. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    just like it, only not spell't the same.
     
  35. guest user

    guest user Pre-takeoff checklist

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    my guess is that although similar, douchebags and dooshbags are native to different parts of the country
     
  36. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    eh I wouldn't overanalyze it. dooshbag is just the douchebag way of spelling douchebag. nothing more, nothing less.
     
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  37. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    another gem

     
  38. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I have a ton of sympathy for that judge (and the jury).

    (caveat IANAL nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
     
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  39. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    guilty. just in case the all the videos showing exactly what he did wasn't enough. fargin doosh canoe.
     
  40. Kenny Taylor

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    I totally missed the trial, but the screaming on social media was hard to miss.