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Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Dan Gordon, Jun 20, 2022.
I can't say I've ever done this .... at all ....
Umm, isn't this a whole different problem?
That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of such a method to judge height above ground. While this may work for you, it’s very non-standard and something I’d caution others on following.
It became ‘a thing’ after that rod machado video.
pretty widely used method from what I've seen.
Rod Machado teaches it.
Not my cup of tea but it helps a lot of people
That is actually how I was able to make landing click consistently for me. I don't think it's as weird as you think. I use it as a way to judge height off the ground, and finding that visual clue helped so much when I was unsure just how high I was.
Hm, guess I haven’t been dazzled by his brilliance.
“Oh, Oh, runway is getting wider, it’s getting widerrrrrer, flarrreeeeeee!”
Yeah, not something I’d use to judge the timing of my flare, but YMMV.
I've never found it very helpful personally. Not something I've struggled with, but I've heard a lot of people say it helped them out when learning.
I learned to flare when I saw my instructor’s hands jerk up towards the yoke...
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Stay on speed ( Vso1.3 ). Aim to the numbers (expect touch down 150-200 beyond aiming point ). Track the flight path not the cowling (in case of crosswind ) . Stay on centerline at all times .Timely round up, hold it, hold it. It’s ok if cowling covers forward visibility look to the left side forward . Heels touch the floor until three wheel firmly on the ground . Anything you don’t like go around . Do it again and again…and again..
I have noticed most people struggle during round up phase. It’s either too much speed, side loading , or drift. It’s also very important to establish good visual picture of correct glide path
In addition to all of the factors already mentioned, personally I find the runway texture to be a critical factor that is often overlooked. Those little grains and grooves on the runway are important for getting a feel for how far up you are from the surface. A gravel or grass runway will be easier compared to a glassy smooth runway. I tell students to pay more attention to the texture (but not fixate on a single point) and their landings often improve automatically.
If you land at the same runway a lot, Machado's tip may help. But if you land at many different runways of widely different widths, it may not. Yesterday I landed at a 100', a 75', and a 36'.
I don't know that I exactly use Machado's tip, but the way I use the runway widening illusion doesn't actually change with the width of the runway. I'm not waiting until it's a certain size or anything like that. I've landed at several different widths and lengths as well, and there is always that moment where you are getting close enough to the runway that in your peripheral vision, the runway begins to widen rapidly. Some get really, really wide, and some just get wider, but I've never landed where that didn't happen, so in my personal experience, the width or length doesn't prevent the "cue" from happening.
The apparent speed of the ground rises as you get closer. That applies to any surface except glassy water.
Looking down at the far end always helped me.
After reviewing my logbook, I have the same number of takeoffs as landings. That’s important
In the early 1970's, my instructor who was always smoking a cigarette in those days, sat in the right seat with his arms crossed and said " try not to kill us ".
Asking for landing advice on the internet is like asking how to become a better musician...lots of practice until you figure it out.
I don't see problem to do both. Internet may give a good tips point in the right direction. Practice will have to make it happened.
Biggest issue I see with students is not flaring soon enough and almost slamming it into the runway. Take your time and don’t force it down. Get into ground effect smoothly, let it start to sink, and start bringing to nose up.
I think 70 kts on final is high especially if you’re crossing the threshold at that speed. If you flare a tiny bit at 70 its going up for sure.
I have a t-shirt that says this. I find it hilarious. Also - wearing aviation-related t-shirts lets everyone know that you're a pilot. That's important. Making sure you let everyone around you know that you are a pilot is something that you need to learn before soloing.
Has OP tired this? Because this is the answer and it was post #2. Any other tips/tricks/Rob-Machado-Video-Instruction-Techniques..... not important if they are counter to what your CFI is teaching you. Get with your CFI and go practice and learn. When you get it right, your CFI will know and then you will be off on your solo. Then you can tell everyone you are a pilot. Everyone. You. Meet. Without. Exception.
65 over the fence is about right in a 172 or Cherokee. Drag it in at 60 for short field.
70 isn’t that far off, though, especially early on or on bumpy days when it’s more difficult to be right on the numbers. Students have to understand they’ve got to bleed the speed in ground effect instead of just jerking the nose up if they are fast.
My thing is, students are often going to be fast. So I want them to know how to still land safely if they are in a position to balloon. An extra second or two over the runway will do. They get in trouble when they let the pressure off and try to force it down flat.
Maybe for what you fly, it is.
That assumes that all CFIs know what they're doing. I have found that to be inaccurate. Too many have their students holding approach speed right down to two feet off the runway, then flaring and floating for thousands of feet in ground effect until the thing finally runs out of speed. Or they let it land really flat, risking porpoising or wheelbarrowing and wrecking the nosegear stuff and burning out brakes and tires. There is no hope of ever meeting landing distances published in the POH while doing that.
There is such a thing as round-out, a reducing of power and raising the nose while still above ground effect so as to arrive in ground effect at a speed that won't generate float. It's simply not being taught by many CFIs. They seem afraid of stalling on final or something, and instead they introduce the risks I outlined above. They need to go up high and do power-off stalls, flaps extended, and see just what the ASI shows when the stall break comes. Of course, they must be unafraid of stalls. But they'd learn that they are carrying way too much speed into the landing. And too much speed is the biggest handicap to learning to land.
Hi, thanks for checking in. My landings are good now, just nailed 5 in a row in 10 knot winds gusting to 20. I finally have consistency, which I was lacking.
That's great news!!
Arncha gonna tell us the secret?
How do you determine that?
Doubly important for aerobatic pilots, which is why every contest gives a t-shirt or polo to contestants. The more garish the better. That way everyone knows you are an aerobatic pilot from a distance.
Also important to never miss an opportunity on internet forums to drop in a mention of being an aerobatic pilot. Avatar selection helps reinforce that.
Good point. Amendment to my post, then.... practice with a CFI who knows what they are doing. I am too lazy to look back to see how many hours OP has so far. But if it is a big number and OP still can't land properly, safely and confidently then maybe time for a new CFI...
....aaaand never mind....
Looks like it's time to start shopping for an aviation-themed t-shirt.... Good job! What was the one secret trick?
My Favourite Kind!!!
Another good landing tip. Treat any rental airplane like your own !
I have a T-Shirt that says, "Real Pilots Fly Taildraggers".
I guess that's a bit better than "Real Pilots Have BIG Johnson Bars." (Which I don't even know if it exists).
Thought about one of these ... but it would be embarrassing to have it on when your nose roller friends come to help get your ground looped plane out of the woods:
Or his humor, I’d rather listen to John and Martha.
That actually makes good sense. Think of approaching an overpass while driving down the highway.
It's width looks relatively the same right up to the last few seconds before you pass under it.
As you get closer it expands more and more into your peripheral vision and then suddenly it seems to "jump" very quickly until it widens no more.
Think about it parked. Parked a quarter mile away it looks very narrow, advance and stop just below the outer edged and it's dramatically wider.
Agreed: runway width is an issue. But I find it to be a feature, and not a bug. On narrow runways I find myself contacting the ground a fraction sooner than on a wide runway. But it’s a good thing — it allows me to get to and stay on the centerline quicker of a narrow runway, instead of drifting off the centerline in the flare.
That is something I have observed on a great many videos. Young pilots even with a lot of time really seem to fight every little waggle and over corrections seem to mount as a normal course of operation for me.
The man who introduced me to flying was an old WWII pilot, once he was steady and stable on approach even with fairly heavy crosswinds he just seemed to float it in easily every time with very little "waggling" of the yoke as he called it.
Now that I've gotten serious about flying again I really wish he were around to help out.
Not every technique will work well for everyone all the time. Some instructors are very rigid and everything has to be exactly in accordance with "their way". If for whatever reason you aren't really understanding their way you're going to have serious trouble mastering the skill.
More flexible instructors will be more successful with a larger variety of students. There's more than one method or technique that will work for most things.
This applies to many things in life.