Antique market way down.

Hangars are harder to find, gas and oil is expensive, and god help you if you get stuck having to re-cover it.
 
Have the Aussie's/Kiwis fallen on hard times?
A few years ago that was where most of our antiques were going. They (and a few wealthy Europeans) were buying up anything Golden Age related and shipping it overseas that had a lot to do with driving up the prices. A lot of antique owners were bumping up their asking prices hoping a rich foreigner would pick it up.

Seems like those markets cooled off. I haven't seen as much stuff going out of the country in the last couple years.

I've noticed it in the Waco world too. Prices are generally down. I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near what I paid for my F2 right now.
 
Grum.Man said:
Hangars are harder to find, gas and oil is expensive, and god help you if you get stuck having to re-cover it.
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The folks that were buying those airplanes at those prices generally weren't too concerned about hangar or fuel cost.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The folks that were buying those airplanes at those prices generally weren't too concerned about hangar or fuel cost.
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There are plenty of Antique planes that don't cost 100k that the average joe would consider.
 
Grum.Man said:
There are plenty of Antique planes that don't cost 100k that the average joe would consider.
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I don't think those are the kinds Tom is referring to. Certainly not Gullwing Stinson.

The demand for many of the smaller (under $100k antiques) were being driven by the LSA crowd.
 
One of the things that I think is going to affect aviation is the tendency for most of the better paying means of making a living to concentrate into a relatively few cities. Since GA airports are not financially self sustaining, hangar and even tiedown space is going to be in short supply in those areas, and it's going to be hard to find a place to keep that antique.

That, plus as the pilots who feel some connection to the golden age of aviation age out, I suspect fewer pilots will be interested in flying and maintaining an antique.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I don't think those are the kinds Tom is referring to. Certainly not Gullwing Stinson.
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Were that a SR instead of a V77 it would be a $250-400,000 A/C even still simply of the collectors that want them.
even the classics aren't selling, there is a WACO on e-bay right not for 36k no bids.
 
Tom-D said:
Were that a SR instead of a V77 it would be a $250-400,000 A/C even still simply of the collectors that want them.
even the classics aren't selling, there is a WACO on e-bay right not for 36k no bids.
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$400k for an SR? Maybe a Staggerwing, but I sure haven't seen any SRs go that high. When I was in the buying market I recall seeing SRs in the $100-$200 range. Only civil antiques you'd see typically see above $200k were Staggerwings, Spartan Execs and certain a rare Waco models.

I'm not seeing any Wacos on eBay right now. Do you have a listing?

Either way, my point still remains; it was largely the wealthy foreign buyers that were buying up the high end antiques that was driving those high asking prices. That market seems to have cooled off and the sellers who want to sell are having to lower their asking prices.
 
You can see this phenom in the antique car market. It is generational. As the people who remember old things fondly die off, the demand drops. How much was a restored Model A or T going for 40 years ago? Now?

These things still have serious collector value, but the emotion that drives people to spend crazy money on nostalgia falls off as people get older, and thus the selling prices drop accordingly.
 
Antique planes that still have utility are never going to get cheap(unfortunately for me).

Cessna 180's
Dehavilland Beavers
 
Zeldman said:
And then cruise Rt 66 trying to re-establish yourself in American life while seeing more of the world you just have to see..??
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I saw a TV show years ago about doing just that. A lot of old tacky tourist attractions and such, but it might be fun. But I'd be happy with just the Vette.
 
I'm told a lot of our antique planes are going to Russia.
If I had the bucks I would buy that V77 in a heartbeat.

My Dad's Fairchild 24W ended up in Italy.
 
Get your kicks, on Route 66......Just don't believe the gas prices anymore.....


120919025251-route-66-page-90-story-top.jpg
 
I drive a little bit of Route 66 every time I go to the hangar....Foothill Blvd in Upland. No really cool teepee motels or anything, but a lot of the businesses are "Route 66" this and that.
 
Zeldman said:
Get your kicks, on Route 66......Just don't believe the gas prices anymore.....


120919025251-route-66-page-90-story-top.jpg
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I recall when gas was around 25-30 cents during the muscle car era in the late 60s-early 70s, in south Georgia at least.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Have the Aussie's/Kiwis fallen on hard times?
A few years ago that was where most of our antiques were going. They (and a few wealthy Europeans) were buying up anything Golden Age related and shipping it overseas that had a lot to do with driving up the prices. A lot of antique owners were bumping up their asking prices hoping a rich foreigner would pick it up.

Seems like those markets cooled off. I haven't seen as much stuff going out of the country in the last couple years.

I've noticed it in the Waco world too. Prices are generally down. I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near what I paid for my F2 right now.
Click to expand...

Check out what has happened to the Aussie $ exchange rate. All the commodity economies had enormous run ups in their currencies and it was "cheap" to buy anything priced in US$. Not now...
 
The lowest gas I remember was 19 cents. My dad, driving a 53 dodge pickup, pulled into his usual filling station, then saw the price was a penny cheaper across the street so he went there and bought 10 gallons of gas......and saved 10 cents..... Yep, my dad was a product of the depression.....
 
I've pumped full service gas for $.08 gas war in on rt 46, 6 miles west of the GW bridge in NJ. (1959) $1.25 per hour wages.
 
I ate prime rib 'o dinosaur at the ol' drive-in before it even had a chance to decay into crude oil. Only cost a clam for the order. We didn't care about the price of gas because our cars were rated in feetpower, not horsepower.

Flintsones-YouTube.jpg
 
GRG55 said:
Check out what has happened to the Aussie $ exchange rate. All the commodity economies had enormous run ups in their currencies and it was "cheap" to buy anything priced in US$. Not now...
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This...
 
GRG55 said:
Check out what has happened to the Aussie $ exchange rate. All the commodity economies had enormous run ups in their currencies and it was "cheap" to buy anything priced in US$. Not now...
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Hadn't been following the exchange rate, but that makes a lot of sense.
 
10 year chart of the Australian dollar vs. the US dollar. The same sort of thing happened to the Canadian dollar.
Screen Shot 2017-02-08 at 08.30.22.png
 
The gullwing Stinson is a beautiful aircraft, and the example in the ad looks like a good one.
 
The demand for most antiques like Gullwing Stinsons, etc is dropping as the guys who were kids when those planes were new are all dying off. My dad was a very early member of the Antique Airplane a Association back in the 50s. He owned several straight wing and Gullwing Stinsons. SM8A, Junior S, SM-6000 Trimotor, SR-6 and SR-8. He also owned a D-17 Staggerwing for awhile. He knew tons of guys with antique planes and attended frequent fly-ins. Dad passed in 2000. All his old AAA friends are gone except John Cournoyer.

Seems there simply isn't much interest in the follow-on generations other than the very high end and/or rare antiques as mentioned before such as Staggerwings, Spartans and possibly Howards. I have a friend from high school who recently learned to fly...and is buying a Cirrus so he can fly it to Florida. Simply transportation. No love of flying.

Even run of the mill old planes are sagging in price. Ten years ago a relatively stock VFR Swift was over $40,000. Same plane today would bring $25,000 if the right buyer comes along. Even Cub prices are dropping. A few years ago $45,000 Cubs weren't uncommon. I see some nice ones now advertised $35,000 or less.

I think the proverbial supply vs demand curve is flattening out.
 
N3368K said:
The demand for most antiques like Gullwing Stinsons, etc is dropping as the guys who were kids when those planes were new are all dying off. My dad was a very early member of the Antique Airplane a Association back in the 50s. He owned several straight wing and Gullwing Stinsons. SM8A, Junior S, SM-6000 Trimotor, SR-6 and SR-8. He also owned a D-17 Staggerwing for awhile. He knew tons of guys with antique planes and attended frequent fly-ins. Dad passed in 2000. All his old AAA friends are gone except John Cournoyer.

Seems there simply isn't much interest in the follow-on generations other than the very high end and/or rare antiques as mentioned before such as Staggerwings, Spartans and possibly Howards. I have a friend from high school who recently learned to fly...and is buying a Cirrus so he can fly it to Florida. Simply transportation. No love of flying.

Even run of the mill old planes are sagging in price. Ten years ago a relatively stock VFR Swift was over $40,000. Same plane today would bring $25,000 if the right buyer comes along. Even Cub prices are dropping. A few years ago $45,000 Cubs weren't uncommon. I see some nice ones now advertised $35,000 or less.

I think the proverbial supply vs demand curve is flattening out.
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I guess you have never been to http://www.antiqueairfield.com/flyins/attending.html
Or the Concrete fly in.
 
N3368K said:
The demand for most antiques like Gullwing Stinsons, etc is dropping as the guys who were kids when those planes were new are all dying off.
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This is the absolute truth. Today's guy with discretionary income buys the toy(s) he couldn't afford from his youth.
 
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