Another Triumph of Tightwadedness

RJM62

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Geek on the Hill
The old Saturn I bought had a few panel lamps out, so I decided to replace them all. I mean, who wants to take the dash apart every time a bulb burns out?

Imagine my shock and heartbreak when I learned that the "official" replacements were a special order item and were $13.00 / each! :yikes: Even the cheapest aftermarket lamps I could find from a car parts company were $5.00 each!

So I searched around, and someone on a Saturn forum had found a generic instrument lamp with a compatible base for $0.73 each. But they were 1.2 watts rather than 1.5 watts, and had a black base instead of a blue one. Who gives a rat's? For $0.73, I bought 15 of them (11 for the panel and a few spares). They seem to work just fine.

-Rich
 

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Yeah, those Saturn dash lamps are made out of expensive unobtanium. Even the dealers have trouble (well, part of that is that there aren't any Saturn dealers anymore; you have to rely on GM).

But, having been down that particular road, a local (really good) parts guy figured out that a Porsche lamp would work as an exact fit, for $4 apiece. Every other parts guy in the area tried to tell me there weren't any instrument cluster lamps in a Saturn (yeah, right). I think they were 1.4 watts instead of 1.5. Good enough.

Needless to say, that parts guy got a latte on my dime. Guys that good are worth their weight in gold.

Now, the SL2 is probably good for another 12 years.

There is no reason a lower rated lamp shouldn't work just fine. Higher might possibly cause an overload (but I really really doubt it for instrument lights). As long as it fits.
 
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The landing gear lights in the Matrix are priced along the same lines...$22.00 from the dealer....$0.88 from All Bulbs.

Same lamp.
 
Yeah, those Saturn dash lamps are made out of expensive unobtanium.

But, having been down that particular road, a local (really good) parts guy figured out that a Porsche lamp would work as an exact fit, for $4 apiece. Every other parts guy in the area tried to tell me there weren't any instrument cluster lamps in a Saturn (yeah, right). I think they were 1.4 watts instead of 1.5. Good enough.

Needless to say, that parts guy got a latte on my dime. Guys that good are worth their weight in gold.

Now, the SL2 is probably good for another 12 years.

There is no reason a lower rated lamp shouldn't work just fine. Higher might possibly cause an overload (but I really really doubt it for instrument lights). As long as it fits.

That's my feeling. Here are the lamps I bought, for your future reference:

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?sku=70216116

-Rich
 
The landing gear lights in the Matrix are priced along the same lines...$22.00 from the dealer....$0.88 from All Bulbs.

Same lamp.

I got the $6 ones from Spruce, but they're LEDs. :D
 
The old Saturn I bought had a few panel lamps out, so I decided to replace them all. I mean, who wants to take the dash apart every time a bulb burns out?

Imagine my shock and heartbreak when I learned that the "official" replacements were a special order item and were $13.00 / each! :yikes: Even the cheapest aftermarket lamps I could find from a car parts company were $5.00 each!

So I searched around, and someone on a Saturn forum had found a generic instrument lamp with a compatible base for $0.73 each. But they were 1.2 watts rather than 1.5 watts, and had a black base instead of a blue one. Who gives a rat's? For $0.73, I bought 15 of them (11 for the panel and a few spares). They seem to work just fine.

-Rich

How hard were they to get at to replace?
 
How hard were they to get at to replace?

I just followed the usual procedure for this sort of thing:

1. I first removed the steering column covers, which was the hardest part because the 5.5mm socket wouldn't fit in two of the recessed holes. I finally used a 7/32 nut driver. It was close enough.

2. Removed the two hex screws that hold the bottom trim under the dash (7mm).

3. Removed the two screws holding on the left-side end panel (7mm) and removed it.

4. Removed the cluster trim panel (just pulls off) and disconnected the cluster dimmer switch.

5. Removed the cluster bezel (2 hex screws, 7mm), pulled it out a couple of inches, reached behind it to disconnect the harness connector, and removed the whole bezel.

From that point, it's just a matter of removing and replacing the bulbs from behind the bezel, which by this point is sitting in your lap. You have to turn the lamps about 1/4 turn with a flat screwdriver or a 6mm socket to remove them or replace them. The new bulbs fit perfectly in the sockets.

Then I reconnected the wiring harness, turned on the lights to make sure they all worked, and re-assembled. All told, it took me a little less than an hour, including re-routing the Sirius antenna wire to make it neater.

Another way to do it might have been to remove the top dash cover, which I think would have given enough access to remove the bezel screws. But I didn't want to mess with that because of the pax side airbag, nor did I want to disconnect the power because then I would have had to do like a dozen or more drive cycles to get the OBD2 ready for inspection again in a little over a month. So I just did it the conventional way.

-Rich
 
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GM came out with a hell of a marketing gig with the Saturn, most people had no clue they were buying a GM. I badged up a Fiero I had as a Saturn, people would look at it funny and if they asked I told them it was one of the early prototypes (not a lie, the Fiero was proof of concept for the whole Saturn line) and they would "Ohhhh":rofl:
 
GM came out with a hell of a marketing gig with the Saturn, most people had no clue they were buying a GM. I badged up a Fiero I had as a Saturn, people would look at it funny and if they asked I told them it was one of the early prototypes (not a lie, the Fiero was proof of concept for the whole Saturn line) and they would "Ohhhh":rofl:

Yep. But they were still good cars; and the design of the marketing, distribution, and service network did in fact nurture impressive customer loyalty. Unfortunately for GM, it was also somewhat cannibalistic: Somewhere around 40 percent of Saturn buyers had previously owned other GM-label cars. That was one of several reasons why despite what would seem to be good sales and fierce customer loyalty, GM never considered Saturn a success.

Saturn also operated in a semi-autonomous manner prior to around 2000 and 2002, when the L series and the ION, respectively, came out. Both were built on Opel designs with some Saturn touches. They were still good cars, in my opinion. I owned an ION for a few years and loved it. But they did reflect the beginning of the end of Saturn's limited autonomy. A lot of Saturn fans also lamented the end of the uniqueness of the company's cars.

In the case of the first generation of the Vue, the loss of uniqueness was planned and executed in the opposite manner. The Vue was the first car to use GM's Theta platform, and somewhat revived the company's reputation for unique automobiles and design autonomy, and the Vue was hugely popular.

I drove a Vue for four years and put many, many miles on it. Other than for scheduled maintenance, the only time it visited a mechanic had to do with liquid spilled on the passenger seat, which shorted out an air bag sensor. My mechanic washed it out with plain water and let the seat dry in his boiler room for a few days, which fixed the problem, saving me the cost of a $600.00 seat.

Still, it was the only thing about the car's design that I thought was idiotic. The sensor should have been encased in a moisture-proof pouch, which my mechanic did as an unauthorized retrofit. Spills do happen, kids pee their pants on long trips, and seats do need to be cleaned from time to time; so the sensor needed to be moisture-protected.

Nonetheless, the Vue was a popular and, for the most part, exceptionally reliable car that was one of Saturn's best-ever sellers. But GM then expropriated the Theta design and used it as the basis for the Equinox and Torrent, which made sense from an overall GM design perspective, but also cannibalized the Vue and made it less unique. The second-generation Vues weren't unique at all (they were re-branded Opel Antaras), nor was the Relay (which was the same car as the Buick Terraza, the Chevrolet Uplander, and the Pontiac Montana).

Long story short, GM robbed Saturn of what had been the major thrust of its marketing pitch ("A different kind of car company, a different kind of car"). Eventually the company lost its distinctness in other ways, as well, such as the laid-back, no-haggle sales methodology and the focus on a friendly, continuing customer / company relationship. Although Saturns were still good cars, they had lost everything that made them unique. They became just another GM badge on the same family of cars, until ultimately it made little financial sense for GM to continue the brand. They were just another production and distribution network for re-branded cars from their other labels.

I've owned five Saturns, so I consider myself somewhat of a fan. I wish Penske had been able to find a manufacturer and buy the company, but Renault / Nissan put the kibosh on that idea. They didn't want to cannibalize their own brands to make Saturns for Penske. Like most Saturn fans, I still have fantasies that someone will buy the name and resurrect the company along its original lines. But that possibility seems very remote.

Not that much of a Tightwad, you've got a full tank. :D

I average around 37 MPG in that car. That makes it easier to maintain a full tank. :yes:

-Rich
 
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Rich,

You interested in doing a head gasket on my '99 SL2? [TIC]

Yep. But they were still good cars; and the design of the marketing, distribution, and service network did in fact nurture impressive customer loyalty. Unfortunately for GM, it was also somewhat cannibalistic: Somewhere around 40 percent of Saturn buyers had previously owned other GM-label cars. That was one of several reasons why despite what would seem to be good sales and fierce customer loyalty, GM never considered Saturn a success.

That tells me Saturn didn't die so much as it was killed. It was a threat to the entrenched interests that were running GM and its other divisions. From that perspective, it didn't help Saturn that they were also upending entrenched UAW work rules. Think of the era-- it was the 90's and GM answered the Japanese Civics and Datsuns. They were competing and winning in the small/efficient compact car market.

The Japanese (and the Germans) learned that they could put factories in the Southern US, build cars there specifically designed for the US market anyway, reduce shipping costs, and have them not be taxed as imports.
 
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I'm currently driving a 2001 SL1 that was donated to Cloud Nine until I sell it (donate your car!). As a performance-minded car guy, it is very slow and not particularly interesting, especially with the automatic. But it gets almost 40 MPG as Rich notes, and is exceptionally reliable. So it will make a good econobox for whoever buys it. With under 113k on it, it's got a lot of life left.

GM did seem to have an interesting old mentality, where Oldsmobile and Saturn both seemed to have lots of loyalty. So they killed the brands, I suppose hoping that the previously loyal customers would go be loyal to another GM brand.
 
Rich, you really should disarm the airbags whenever working in the interior, inlcuding removing the instrument cluster. A frayed wire in the steering column could cause an accidental deployment. You would not be positioned well for that.

If you've ever seen one of these go off, you'll treat it like a hot mag.
 
Rich, you really should disarm the airbags whenever working in the interior, inlcuding removing the instrument cluster. A frayed wire in the steering column could cause an accidental deployment. You would not be positioned well for that.

If you've ever seen one of these go off, you'll treat it like a hot mag.

I know. I worked from off to the left side sitting outside the car on a milk box, but yeah, you're right. I have my own feelings about Big Brother requiring that we drive around with explosive charges 16 inches from our heads, but that's more SZ material.

One thing that's interesting, according to my old mechanic in Queens (who's really more of a diagnostics specialist), is that removing the fuse won't immediately disarm the SRS system. The only ways to do it, says he, are either (1) disconnect the airbags (which usually requires removing the steering column cover and knee guards, which kinda makes you wonder about what engineers think about), or (2) disconnect the battery and turn stuff on and off for long enough to let all the caps discharge (usually an hour or so).

If it weren't for the inspection coming up, I would have disconnected the battery. But it typically takes more than a dozen drive cycles and 200 - 300 miles for all the OBD2 systems to be ready after that; so I just worked from the left side, sitting on a milk box.

-Rich
 
I'm currently driving a 2001 SL1 that was donated to Cloud Nine until I sell it (donate your car!). As a performance-minded car guy, it is very slow and not particularly interesting, especially with the automatic. But it gets almost 40 MPG as Rich notes, and is exceptionally reliable. So it will make a good econobox for whoever buys it. With under 113k on it, it's got a lot of life left.

GM did seem to have an interesting old mentality, where Oldsmobile and Saturn both seemed to have lots of loyalty. So they killed the brands, I suppose hoping that the previously loyal customers would go be loyal to another GM brand.

You might like my Saturn a little more:D
 
If it weren't for the inspection coming up, I would have disconnected the battery. But it typically takes more than a dozen drive cycles and 200 - 300 miles for all the OBD2 systems to be ready after that; so I just worked from the left side, sitting on a milk box.

It's been a while since I've done this, but I seem to recall you can remove the horn pad while seated in a normal driving position, and this takes the explosive with it.

Many cars will have you pull a fuse for 15 minutes, or in some cases, short the cap out, rather than just disconnect the battery. Check the service manual; you don't want to get this wrong. fortunately, GM service manuals like to tell you the procedure in boldface at the start of just about every chapter.

It should only take one complete drive cycle to run all the OBD-2 tests. But you have to hit all the stages, and some of them can be hard to do in the mountains (such as high speed cruise).

Here's the GM drive cycle:

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycle.html

If you don't have an OBD-II interface (you can even get them with bluetooth these days), it will be helpful to make sure you don't have surprises during an emissions inspection. Not all faults trip codes, and few faults trip codes the first time (they show up as "pending codes" until the fault repeats). Don't rely on auto parts stores for this unless you really, really, really trust the operator. You'll want to get into the detailed tests and parameters to make a diagnosis, not just read codes.
 
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It's been a while since I've done this, but I seem to recall you can remove the horn pad while seated in a normal driving position, and this takes the explosive with it.

The airbag module of many cars/trucks frequently is "finished" with the horn pad on top. If you look at the steering wheel from underneath, you will see two (sometimes four) screws holding it to the wheel. Remove those, then un-clip the electrical connector, and the airbag module can be removed.
 
I know my Saturn you push a small tool into a hole on each side of the steering wheel to release a clip and the whole airbag comes out
 
You might like my Saturn a little more:D

Yours definitely looks like a lot more fun.

I will admit that the 40 MPG or so this gets on regular is a nice feature. But for the 10k miles I drive per year and being a performance guy, I'll stick to my 21 MPG on Premium to get 450 HP. :D

Which reminds me, more go-fast parts should be arriving on Friday.
 
It's been a while since I've done this, but I seem to recall you can remove the horn pad while seated in a normal driving position, and this takes the explosive with it.

Many cars will have you pull a fuse for 15 minutes, or in some cases, short the cap out, rather than just disconnect the battery. Check the service manual; you don't want to get this wrong. fortunately, GM service manuals like to tell you the procedure in boldface at the start of just about every chapter.

It should only take one complete drive cycle to run all the OBD-2 tests. But you have to hit all the stages, and some of them can be hard to do in the mountains (such as high speed cruise).

Here's the GM drive cycle:

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycle.html

If you don't have an OBD-II interface (you can even get them with bluetooth these days), it will be helpful to make sure you don't have surprises during an emissions inspection. Not all faults trip codes, and few faults trip codes the first time (they show up as "pending codes" until the fault repeats). Don't rely on auto parts stores for this unless you really, really, really trust the operator. You'll want to get into the detailed tests and parameters to make a diagnosis, not just read codes.

Yeah, that's the drive cycle I do. I have a nice stretch of quiet road here that works out well for it. But it takes about five cycles for the EVAP to be ready, and about a dozen or so for the CAT.

I do have an OBD2 reader, which is a real blessing. I have to drive 27.2 miles to the nearest auto parts guy I trust. No bluetooth, just an old-fashioned wire; although I'm thinking about the BT just so I can use Torque on an Android. That looks like a heck of a good app and is about the best reason I can think of for buying an Android tablet.

-Rich
 
I have this thing about airbags...

I know that they've killed or wounded some people, so there's some risk. I also know that for all the time I spent in EMS, I never once had to cut a DOA out of a seat belt. So it seems to me that seat belts do a pretty darn good job by themselves, and I'm not convinced that any additional protection afforded by the bags justifies the known risks.

I also saw some pretty horribly serious MVAs where the bags never deployed, which is another gripe I have with them. My SIL spent, I think, two weeks in the hospital after one of those crashes.

So I'm not a huge fan of the bags. I probably should have removed it, though, if for no other reason than the cost of replacing it had it decided to deploy. It wouldn't have hit me off to the side like I was, but I'd probably need new pants and would have had to call Mike for a replacement. (For the air bag, that is, not the pants.)

-Rich
 
I have this thing about airbags...

I know that they've killed or wounded some people, so there's some risk. I also know that for all the time I spent in EMS, I never once had to cut a DOA out of a seat belt. So it seems to me that seat belts do a pretty darn good job by themselves, and I'm not convinced that any additional protection afforded by the bags justifies the known risks.

I also saw some pretty horribly serious MVAs where the bags never deployed, which is another gripe I have with them. My SIL spent, I think, two weeks in the hospital after one of those crashes.

So I'm not a huge fan of the bags. I probably should have removed it, though, if for no other reason than the cost of replacing it had it decided to deploy. It wouldn't have hit me off to the side like I was, but I'd probably need new pants and would have had to call Mike for a replacement. (For the air bag, that is, not the pants.)

-Rich

Take it off and sell it to a body shop if you don't want it.
 
Yours definitely looks like a lot more fun.

I will admit that the 40 MPG or so this gets on regular is a nice feature. But for the 10k miles I drive per year and being a performance guy, I'll stick to my 21 MPG on Premium to get 450 HP. :D

Which reminds me, more go-fast parts should be arriving on Friday.

No airbags...

Mine gets crummy mileage too, 21/25 for a 2.0 4 banger just isnt right, or maybe it is!
 
I also saw some pretty horribly serious MVAs where the bags never deployed, which is another gripe I have with them. My SIL spent, I think, two weeks in the hospital after one of those crashes.

That is one thing that I am amazed at on some vehicles I acquire for the salvage yard.

There will be cars/and trucks hit hard enough to put the radiator core support against the engine and crumple the hood and fenders, but the airbag will be intact. And later, I'll see a car with much lighter damage from a much slower speed crash and all of the front airbags deployed.

And I'll see this phenomenon on cars/trucks of similar years/makes/models.
 
I have this thing about airbags...

I know that they've killed or wounded some people, so there's some risk. I also know that for all the time I spent in EMS, I never once had to cut a DOA out of a seat belt. So it seems to me that seat belts do a pretty darn good job by themselves, and I'm not convinced that any additional protection afforded by the bags justifies the known risks.

I also saw some pretty horribly serious MVAs where the bags never deployed, which is another gripe I have with them. My SIL spent, I think, two weeks in the hospital after one of those crashes.

So I'm not a huge fan of the bags. I probably should have removed it, though, if for no other reason than the cost of replacing it had it decided to deploy. It wouldn't have hit me off to the side like I was, but I'd probably need new pants and would have had to call Mike for a replacement. (For the air bag, that is, not the pants.)

-Rich

I'm not a big fan of airbags, either. I tend to agree that seat belts will do the vast majority of the good, and I've known enough people that airbags have caused problems for. My car has a driver's airbag, and while I'm not planning on removing it (mainly to keep the stock look), I'm glad it doesn't have a passenger side airbag.

I'm actually considering specifically picking out my next car to be old enough that it doesn't have any airbags, but this one will probably be around for a while.

No airbags...

Mine gets crummy mileage too, 21/25 for a 2.0 4 banger just isnt right, or maybe it is!

Actually, 21/25 is pretty much what I get. 21 on my normal commuting cycle and 25 highway. I'm pretty happy with it for the amount of power I get. Theoretically it should improve as I do things that reduce the power required for acceleration, like the carbon fiber driveshaft and the lightweight wheels.
 
Take it off and sell it to a body shop if you don't want it.

I'm conflicted about that. I'm more unconvinced about them than sure that I don't like them. I think the chances of injury are small if the driver / passenger has a seat belt on, which is something I enforce. I'm just unconvinced about whether they afford enough additional production to justify the small, but known risk.

I certainly don't think they should be mandatory, however, and I certainly oppose having to get permission from the federal DOT to install a switch to turn them off. That was one law I routinely ignored back when there were little kids in my family that I had to schlep about. Half a yard on the side to the mechanic for a professionally-installed switch sans federal permission did the trick back then.

-Rich
 
They were made mandatory because they were a passive restraint in a time when people argued against using an active restraint.
 
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