Another page in the book "How stupid can..

Aztec Driver

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
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982
Location
Elizabethtown, PA
Display Name

Display name:
Bryon
..you be and still live."

My new to me Twinkie is still making me think, but, apparently, I still don't want to.

I have been having problems with the bus voltage being too low until I get the RPM's up on takeoff, being reported to me by the GPS. I also have been having trouble with the green gear light taking a long time to come on in the first landing of the flight, and then getting better as the flight progresses.

So today I decide to take the bird up for a quick flight to practice steep turns, and all of the other commercial multi engine maneuvers, including single engine ops. My GPS gave me the usual "low bus voltage" warning, and I found the page that actually displays the voltage, because the voltmeter does not read very accurately. It read 10.7 volts! Wow, better get the RPM's up before I run out of battery power. Proceed to do a runup and check everything. Voltage still did not come up very far.

Knowing that it has always come up on takeoff, I proceed with the takeoff. After departing the pattern for the practice area, I once again check the voltage. Hmmm, still 10.7. That's not good. I proceeded to do some steep turns and all is going OK.

It is then I notice the GPS is off. And the com lights are off. And the gear up light is off. Well, this is interesting. So here is where the brain has decided to turn off and kick in the "what the heck am I supposed to do in this scenario?"

I decided to end the flight and go back. It was right about that time I remembered that my gear are electrically operated. So I slow down below gear speed, turn everything off, and drop the gear. Down they come, partially, and then stop. I could see they were only half way down by the mirror on the nacelle. Now this has turned into a gear problem. So, says I, I will need to perform a manual gear extension. Now in the Twinkie, it is very easy, except that when completed, you must have the aircraft jacked up to reinstall the motor to the drive bar. Well, no choice, they aren't going down by themselves, so I proceed to drop the gear manually. They clunk into place with a satisfying thump and the gear light immediately turns on, no delay, no waiting.

I proceeded to make an uneventful no flaps, no comm landing and pulled into my parking space. I shut everything down and went into the office to talk to the guys in the office. After a little discussion on the systems, it occurs to us that it didn't appear that either generator could have been charging, and since there are two, that is quite suspect. After a brief exchange the one guy asks "--- --- ---- -- --- ---------- --------?"

DOH!!!!!!!! I broke from routine on the previous flight with someone else and I did not even check them. Isn't that the first thing you should check on an electrical failure?

See if you can fill in the blanks. And yes, you may laugh hysterically at me, I deserve it.
 
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Circuit breakers.

on second thought, master switch would make more sense since you do have voltage but it's too low.
 
Did you turn on the generator switches?
 
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Did you turn on the generator switches?

We have a winner. I actually have two, that are supposed to stay on, as opposed to some other planes that you turn them off. I got into the habit of leaving them on, only because the previous owner told me to. I had no other reason, other than that. So when my airline pilot CFI got in too fly it and saw them on before starting, he turned them off, started the engines, then on. Then, on shutdown, he shut them down, and I did not check them because I was in the habit of letting them on and forgot completely about them.

My bad procedures.
 
Oh Dear.

Life is a continuous opportunity to learn. Bet you don't do that again.

/s/ Spike (who has never forgotten to turn on an alternator switch, and certainly not one fine night in Abilene, Texas, wondering why the lights were getting dim as he taxied to the runway...)
 
heh chris and i did this in the RV on one of our lessons. same thing, we both scratched our heads at the low voltage thing when we turned the strobes on but it was fine during runup. about an hour into the flight of running the 430, transponder, wingtip strobes, nav lights, and the Dynon EFIS it started flashing a lot. Then chris flipped the alternator switch on and all was well.

*smack forehead*

oh well, we figured it was a good way to see how long everything would run on battery alone. actually a good thing to know in an all electric airplane IFR (right???)
 
heh chris and i did this in the RV on one of our lessons. same thing, we both scratched our heads at the low voltage thing when we turned the strobes on but it was fine during runup. about an hour into the flight of running the 430, transponder, wingtip strobes, nav lights, and the Dynon EFIS it started flashing a lot. Then chris flipped the alternator switch on and all was well.

*smack forehead*

oh well, we figured it was a good way to see how long everything would run on battery alone. actually a good thing to know in an all electric airplane IFR (right???)

What do you mean we "forgot"?! I told you that I was doing it as a test to see how long I could run things until stuff started shutting down by itself. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.. hehehehe...
 
oh yes, of course...how could i forget that we didnt forget? :dunno:
 
You still need to get the voltage regulator checked. It will check OK. Have it replaced anyway.

When mine was replaced after various other "we found its" the problems I was having with blown master CB and not taking a full load for about 5 years was gone.

I never knew how bright the panel lights were supposed to be. Night flying was a lot less scary all of a sudden. I always thought I needed a flashlight to see the gauges. Not no more.
 
Spike (who has never forgotten to turn on an alternator switch, and certainly not one fine night in Abilene, Texas, wondering why the lights were getting dim as he taxied to the runway...)
And I have never done that either, except for the time I was flying along and the lights started to get dim and the radio went out... :redface:
 
What do you mean we "forgot"?! I told you that I was doing it as a test to see how long I could run things until stuff started shutting down by itself. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.. hehehehe...

Well, I can tell you that mine does not run very long with just the battery. Less than a half hour.
 
Well, I can tell you that mine does not run very long with just the battery. Less than a half hour.

But, like me, at least now you know. And knowing is half the battle. I was actually surprised -- we were able to go about 1 hr with: Garmin 430, Transponder, Dynon EFIS, Grand Rapids Engine Monitor, Nav lights, and strobes all running. That is definitely useful info to have if generator/alternator goes out in the clouds.

At least we didn't have to pump the gear down, though. ouch! :(
 
It stands to good reason why my CFI beats me over the head with my own checklist if I fail to use it. The most common is obviously read the item, do it then move to the next. Everyone I fly with is quite fine with a flow method but I better be going back to the list to verify I got every detail.
 
/s/ Spike (who has never forgotten to turn on an alternator switch, and certainly not one fine night in Abilene, Texas, wondering why the lights were getting dim as he taxied to the runway...)

The Archer has seperate batt and alt switches, not that *I've* ever forgotten to turn on the alt switch. Luckily, the pre-takeoff checklist caught it, though.
 
now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

GI JOE!!!!

I can't be the only one that remembers the "Hey kids, don't do this" segments at the end of the GI Joe cartoon?


BTTT, of course, Byron, you learned an expensive lesson, but you troubleshot everything you thought of. That's fine piloting in my book, regardless of missing the correct solution.
 
GI JOE!!!!

I can't be the only one that remembers the "Hey kids, don't do this" segments at the end of the GI Joe cartoon?

It's a shame we couldn't have such cartoons on today. Too much violence and a guy named "Sgt. Slaughter". Oh well.

Skyhog said:
]BTTT, of course, Byron, you learned an expensive lesson, but you troubleshot everything you thought of. That's fine piloting in my book, regardless of missing the correct solution.

Yep yep, live and learn. It won't happen again, will it Byron? :D
 
We have a winner. I actually have two, that are supposed to stay on, as opposed to some other planes that you turn them off. I got into the habit of leaving them on, only because the previous owner told me to. I had no other reason, other than that. So when my airline pilot CFI got in too fly it and saw them on before starting, he turned them off, started the engines, then on. Then, on shutdown, he shut them down, and I did not check them because I was in the habit of letting them on and forgot completely about them.

My bad procedures.


Bryon, I did virtually the same thing on my first solo flight in the Baron. But being an electrical engineer as well as a pilot it only took me a bit less than half an hour to figure it out and remedy the situation.

I took off on a 3 hour round trip to begin satisfying the insurance company's requirement of 10 solo before carrying pax. In hindsight it was obvious I missed or skipped the "alternators on" line on the checklist, but the way things unfolded that obviously wasn't so obvious to me at first.

I was cruising along playing with the autopilot when I noticed it started getting kinda cold in the cabin. I pulled the heater temp control all the way to hot with no noticeable effect. I'm thinking shoot, I just bought the airplane and now the heater's gone kaput. Then the autopilot quit, followed soon by the #1 nav signal flagging. Now I'm seriously concerned that I just paid a bunch of money for a pile of bad smelling waste material and thinking maybe I should abort the trip before something serious fails. Finally the thinking part of the gray matter kicks in and I start scanning the gauges a little more intently. What's this? Both loadmeters showing zero amps? Darn, it must be that both alternators have failed. I'm so smart I'm even considering that maybe one was already dead when I started and the second failure happened on this flight. Meanwhile I try switching to the alternate regulator... no effect. Then it occurs to me that I could try shutting the alternators down and restarting them, but wait! They're already off! I throw the two switches on and everything comes back to life. "Genius" conquers stupidity, whoppee!

Maybe the insurance company requires some solo time to prevent terminal embarrassment?
 
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I'm thinking shoot, I just bought the airplane and now the heater's gone kaput. Then the autopilot quit, followed soon by the #1 nav signal flagging. Now I'm seriously concerned that I just paid a bunch of money for a pile of bad smelling waste material and thinking maybe I should abort the trip before something serious fails. Finally the thinking part of the gray matter kicks in and I start scanning the gauges a little more intently. What's this? Both loadmeters showing zero amps? Darn, it must be that both alternators have failed. I'm so smart I'm even considering that maybe one was already dead when I started and the second failure happened on this flight. Meanwhile I try switching to the alternate regulator... no effect. Then it occurs to me that I could try shutting the alternators down and restarting them, but wait! They're already off!

Oh thats classic Lance! Made me laugh out loud.

MM
 
Bryon, I did virtually the same thing on my first solo flight in the Baron. But being an electrical engineer as well as a pilot it only took me a bit less than half an hour to figure it out and remedy the situation.

I took off on a 3 hour round trip to begin satisfying the insurance company's requirement of 10 solo before carrying pax. In hindsight it was obvious I missed or skipped the "alternators on" line on the checklist, but the way things unfolded that obviously wasn't so obvious to me at first.

I was cruising along playing with the autopilot when I noticed it started getting kinda cold in the cabin. I pulled the heater temp control all the way to hot with no noticeable effect. I'm thinking shoot, I just bought the airplane and now the heater's gone kaput. Then the autopilot quit, followed soon by the #1 nav signal flagging. Now I'm seriously concerned that I just paid a bunch of money for a pile of bad smelling waste material and thinking maybe I should abort the trip before something serious fails. Finally the thinking part of the gray matter kicks in and I start scanning the gauges a little more intently. What's this? Both loadmeters showing zero amps? Darn, it must be that both alternators have failed. I'm so smart I'm even considering that maybe one was already dead when I started and the second failure happened on this flight. Meanwhile I try switching to the alternate regulator... no effect. Then it occurs to me that I could try shutting the alternators down and restarting them, but wait! They're already off! I throw the two switches on and everything comes back to life. "Genius" conquers stupidity, whoppee!

Maybe the insurance company requires some solo time to prevent terminal embarrassment?

Unfortunately in my case, stupidity conquered genius. Oh well, at least I now know that the manual gear extension works great. And I will learn how to reset the gear motor now, too.
 
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