Another one down...

Bummer!

there were some nasty storms today that came down formt he OSH area. I canclelled my flight today and instead drove my nieces to Valpo with the storms chasing me the entire way. If this happened in the evening the WX was much better but still bad vis, lots of haze and they could have been flying towards bad WX that was between Chicago and Ft. Wayne.

Also did you catch the "American LEGION Cub?" Bet they meant LEGEND
 
Thats why when I fly the Lakeshore I have a life vest on all the time, 4 miles is a long way to swim.

Regards Mike
 
wesleyj said:
Like is said in an earlier post, anyone that flies a single engine airplane over lake michigan is a fool.
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Right...because the engine is much more likely to quit over water. :rolleyes:

Take precautions, be careful, and leave an out (any out, including a vest/inflatable lifeboat). But to call someone a fool for flying single engine over water is unneccesary.
 
Id rather lose an engine over Lake Michigan than lose it over the mountains in Arizona/Nevada.
 
Day VFR in the mountains, you stand a better chance for survival than you do in any of the great lakes.

I have lived and flown my entire life in the shadow of Lake Michigan, I have lost friends and aquaintances to that lake, in airplanes that went into the water, most never seen again, a couple of their bodies floated up weeks later, I stand by my comment, only a fool.
 
John,

Your comments are noted. However, would you have the same opinion if I were to fly over a narrow portion of the Lake at 17,000 in a plane with a glide profile that were 20 miles from that altitude?

bill
 
I think that you can cross it with at least some responsibility. There are many singles that would be up to the task if you were to have some altitude and cross at the right location.

Crossing Lake Michigan in a Cub IMO is pretty stupid.

OTOH... I might do it if I had a reason but I'm pretty sure a raft would be along for the trip. I would only do it alone though...To hell if I'd want to live knowing that a choice of mine killed someone.
 
4 miles offshore. They were most likely avoiding Chicago airspace, as opposed to another 100 miles of detour going to the west, since it's hard to go through. Wonder if things might have been different if we still had Meigs?
 
I cross Lake Michigan all the time. I have an 8 minute wet footprint and I cross it at around 10,000 feet when I do. Lets see, water temp in Lake Michigan is up around 70 degrees right now - and warmer in some spots. Completely survivable.

Although since I am crossing over water I am not able to log PIC time since in order to log PIC time I have to be able to act as PIC, and since I am flying over water and can't act as PIC while over the water because in order to fly over it I need a floatplane rating right, John?
 
wsuffa said:
4 miles offshore. They were most likely avoiding Chicago airspace, as opposed to another 100 miles of detour going to the west, since it's hard to go through. Wonder if things might have been different if we still had Meigs?
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Hi Bill
There is a VFR corridor along the lakeshore when you are at Gary Ind you need to at 4300 or less and then down to 2300 ft for the most part but you can fly right along the shore so if you lose a engine you won't be swimming to far. I just flew that route on my way to and from Oshkosh. There is a good chance they both would still be alive today if they had followed that VFR corrodior and you don't have to talk to ATC.

Regards Mike
 
wesleyj said:
Like is said in an earlier post, anyone that flies a single engine airplane over lake michigan is a fool.
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He wasn't crossing the lake. The lake is not between Oshkosh and Gary. He was on the lakeshore VFR route, which you fly as far from shore as you feel comfortable, usually within a mile of land. It's even marked on the terminal charts.

What I don't know is how far from shore he was when went down. The coast guard rescued the surving passenger from something IN the lake, like a crib or bouy. Those are anywhere from 1-2 miles out from shore. I always figured I'd go for the beach or parkland if possible, although on hot days like we're having, the beaches would have more people on them than a city street.

BTW, if he was at 60th street he was 5 miles south of northerly island A.K.A Meigs. There is some abandoned industrial stuff on the shore there.

If you haven't heard there is late word that the pilot on was not rescued.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-plane31.html
 
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flykelley said:
Hi Bill
There is a VFR corridor along the lakeshore when you are at Gary Ind you need to at 4300 or less and then down to 2300 ft for the most part but you can fly right along the shore so if you lose a engine you won't be swimming to far. I just flew that route on my way to and from Oshkosh. There is a good chance they both would still be alive today if they had followed that VFR corrodior and you don't have to talk to ATC.

Regards Mike
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Problem was there was one of the stadium TFR near the shore. Therefore they had to fly out a couple of miles over water to avoid the security nonesense.
 
smigaldi said:
Problem was there was one of the stadium TFR near the shore. Therefore they had to fly out a couple of miles over water to avoid the security nonesense.
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Well that makes alot more sense then. Im not sure that I would have flowen that route then given the TFR and the weather. Its always sad to lose a fellow pilot.

Regards Mike
 
I've flown the VFR route along the lakeshore a few times with passengers, who love to marvel at the Chicago skyline. I don't believe I've ever been 4 miles from shore, though. I guess if they were at 68th street, they may have been trying to clip off the last bit of water when heading for Gary. at the altitudes you need to be to stay under Class B, you really don't have a lot glide in you if the big fan stops. Someday, if I ever own a Bravo, I may cross the pond in a single engine, but I'd need to have a short wet footprint indeed.


edit: Faster typers prevail....didn't know of the Stadium TFR that day.
 
Of course if they were talking to ATC - they could have flown within the 3nm of the stadium. If ATC would answer that is.
 
N2212R said:
Of course if they were talking to ATC - they could have flown within the 3nm of the stadium. If ATC would answer that is.
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Well we know how C90 would have handled it "what, huh, I Can't hear you..." But if the CGX Tower were still there.... SIGH!
 
wsuffa said:
4 miles offshore. They were most likely avoiding Chicago airspace, as opposed to another 100 miles of detour going to the west, since it's hard to go through. Wonder if things might have been different if we still had Meigs?
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At what point do we call the blatant refusal of Chicago's app controllers a significant contributing factor to unsafe aircraft operation?

One could easily do so, you know.

Think of the Chicago situation as a microcosm of the bigger pictures, if user fees and the like are implemented; pilots being encouraged to avoid use of airspace management resources, unsafe operation inevitably follow. Blood is on whose hands?
 
They found the pilot, not good news either :(

Pilot found in lake ID'd


By Jeremy Gorner and Jason Meisner
Tribune staff reporters
Published August 3, 2006, 8:06 AM CDT

Authorities this morning identified the pilot who apparently drowned after his single-engine plane crash-landed into Lake Michigan last weekend, four miles off the city's shoreline on the South Side.

The body of John Gonas, 57, was pulled from the lake around 5 p.m. Wednesday about a mile east of Jackson Harbor. The plane was also found at the lake bottom about 50 feet from Gonas' body, authorities said.

Gonas, of Akron, Ohio, was pronounced dead at 10:20 p.m. Wednesday at the Cook County medical examiner's office, a spokesman said. An autopsy was to be conducted this morning.

Chicago Police Marine Unit divers located the wreckage with the aid of the O'Hare International Airport tower's record of the plane's flight path, police spokeswoman Monique Bond said. The divers used a scanning sonar device to pinpoint the wreckage.

"(The divers) got final readings, plotted the courses and conducted multiple searches with the sonar over the projected course," Bond said.

Bond said the plane was not removed from the water on Wednesday because of thunderstorms that were passing through the area. The plane will likely be removed sometime today.

The plane, an American Legend Cub, crash-landed into the lake Sunday afternoon en route to Gary Chicago International Airport from an air show in Oshkosh, Wis.

The plane's only passenger, a 49-year-old Texas man, and the pilot struggled together to swim ashore, officials have said. But only the passenger was rescued, scooped up by a Coast Guard Auxiliary boat about 5:10 p.m. that day, a half-hour after the plane went down.

From there, U.S. Coast Guard volunteers helped transport the passenger to shore. He was later treated and released from the University of Chicago Hospitals.

Federal Aviation Administration records show Gonas has a valid private pilot's license issued out of the agency's Great Lakes Regional Office.

Also Wednesday, police who were transporting Gonas' body back to shore found a woman's body floating near the Adler Planetarium, east of downtown Chicago.

The woman was pulled from the water and taken to the medical examiner's office, where she was pronounced dead at 9:05 p.m. Wednesday. An autopsy was scheduled for today.

A medical examiner's office spokesman said the woman's body was badly decomposed, and she remained unidentified this morning.




Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune
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weird they just found some random lady floating while looking for another guy.
 
tonycondon said:
weird they just found some random lady floating while looking for another guy.
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That is why I don't live in Chicago.
 
When I was in high school, the rowing team would regularly pull bodies out of the Potomac. About once a month, IIRC.
 
FiftyFour said:
Interesting I always thought the Coast Guard were paid professionals not Volunteers,
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Coast Guard Auxiliary is all volunteer. A lot of the Lake Michigan area is under the jurisdiction of the CG Aux. The Auxilliar also directly performs all of the missions of the Coast Guard missions except law enforcement and military. That means they SAR, environmental protection, radio watch standing, etc.
 
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Any way it happened it is still sad.
Don't know that I would have done it in a cub though.
Lots of pilots out there whom have never had a problem (me included) but my luck would be exactly what happened here.
 
wesleyj said:
Like is said in an earlier post, anyone that flies a single engine airplane over lake michigan is a fool.
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I guess I'm a fool then. I did it twice (my first two times) the weekend before OSH.

I had a life jacket in the passenger seat.

I took a fairly narrow area (Manitowoc to Manistee) across. I was never more than 21.5nm from shore, though I was over water for a bit more like 46nm, there are some outcroppings that I didn't fly directly over but would have headed for if the fan stopped.

I used the G430 to keep track of exact winds aloft, and I had a specific go vs. turn-back point which I kept close track of.

I was at 13,000 feet on the way over, 12 on the way back. Exposure time was very limited. I'm confident I could have made it to shore even without the life jacket, but why tempt fate... I felt better having it there.

I would not cross the lake most of the year. July and August is about it for me. Earlier the water is colder. After Labor Day, there's not many boats left out on the lake to ditch near.

However, just the fact that you cross the lake does not make you a fool, IMHO. It's about being prepared and managing risk. After all, some folks think that even flying a single-engine plane at all makes one a fool...
 
wesleyj said:
Like is said in an earlier post, anyone that flies a single engine airplane over lake michigan is a fool.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm a fool then. I did it twice (my first two times) the weekend before OSH.

I had a life jacket in the passenger seat.

I took a fairly narrow area (Manitowoc to Manistee) across. I was never more than 21.5nm from shore, though I was over water for a bit more like 46nm, there are some outcroppings that I didn't fly directly over but would have headed for if the fan stopped.

I used the G430 to keep track of exact winds aloft, and I had a specific go vs. turn-back point which I kept close track of.

I was at 13,000 feet on the way over, 12 on the way back. Exposure time was very limited. I'm confident I could have made it to shore even without the life jacket, but why tempt fate... I felt better having it there.

I would not cross the lake most of the year. July and August is about it for me. Earlier the water is colder. After Labor Day, there's not many boats left out on the lake to ditch near.

However, just the fact that you cross the lake does not make you a fool, IMHO. It's about being prepared and managing risk. After all, some folks think that even flying a single-engine plane at all makes one a fool...
 
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