flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I came across this while perusing the FAA's preliminary accident info site:
Where's Bill O'Reilly?
Where's Bill O'Reilly?
Another jet with damage to both engines...
- Thread starter flyingcheesehead
- Start date
Joe B
Pre-takeoff checklist
I thought this was an incident report about the landing!
Speed
Pre-takeoff checklist
Here's another one I found...
Accident occurred Thursday, September 01, 2005 in Lorain, OH
Probable Cause Approval Date: 8/29/2006
Aircraft: Dassault/Sud Falcon 20D, registration: N821AA
Injuries: 1 Minor, 1 Uninjured.
The small, twin-engine business jet was about 15 feet above the runway on takeoff, when a flock of birds from both sides of the runway flew up in front of the airplane. The number two engine "surged," and "loud reports" were heard before the copilot noted a complete loss of power on the number two engine instruments. The airplane climbed for about 10 seconds, before the copilot observed the gas producer (N1) gauge on the number one engine decay through 50 percent. The stall warning horn sounded, and the pilot adjusted the flight controls for landing. The airplane contacted the runway with the landing gear retracted, overran the runway, struck a fence, crossed a road, and came to rest in a cornfield about 1,000 feet beyond the initial point of ground contact. Post accident examination of both engines revealed evidence and damage consistent with multiple bird ingestion.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The ingestion of multiple birds in each engine at takeoff, which resulted in a complete loss of engine power.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20050927X01535&ntsbno=IAD05LA129&akey=1Full Narrative Here
Accident occurred Thursday, September 01, 2005 in Lorain, OH
Probable Cause Approval Date: 8/29/2006
Aircraft: Dassault/Sud Falcon 20D, registration: N821AA
Injuries: 1 Minor, 1 Uninjured.
The small, twin-engine business jet was about 15 feet above the runway on takeoff, when a flock of birds from both sides of the runway flew up in front of the airplane. The number two engine "surged," and "loud reports" were heard before the copilot noted a complete loss of power on the number two engine instruments. The airplane climbed for about 10 seconds, before the copilot observed the gas producer (N1) gauge on the number one engine decay through 50 percent. The stall warning horn sounded, and the pilot adjusted the flight controls for landing. The airplane contacted the runway with the landing gear retracted, overran the runway, struck a fence, crossed a road, and came to rest in a cornfield about 1,000 feet beyond the initial point of ground contact. Post accident examination of both engines revealed evidence and damage consistent with multiple bird ingestion.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The ingestion of multiple birds in each engine at takeoff, which resulted in a complete loss of engine power.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20050927X01535&ntsbno=IAD05LA129&akey=1Full Narrative Here
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
So, it could be said that maybe this does happen often enough to warrant just a little further training?
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
So, it could be said that maybe this does happen often enough to warrant just a little further training?
Wow - It is not at all difficult to find instances of dual engine failure. Many of them were fuel management issues (including one where 39 gallons of fuel were "unaccounted for" - As in, the NTSB thought there should have been 39 gallons remaining after doing their own caluculations but noted that there were no fuel stains on the airplane or on the ground where it landed.)
But, not all of them were pilot-induced. Twin Otter due to "undetermined reasons," 3 uninjured. Sabreliner due to lightning strike, 2 fatal/2 serious. The aforementioned "missing fuel" one was an Apache, 2 uninjured. A twin-engine turbine helicopter whose type I'm not familiar with had a dual failure for reasons I don't entirely understand, 3 uninjured. Challenger 600 due to ice ingestion, 4 uninjured (they did manage to get them restarted at 5000 feet after flameouts at FL310).
And all of that was on the first search. There are several sets of keywords that could be used to find these accidents - Note that I did not find any of the previously mentioned ones on this search, so there's surely quite a few more.
I wonder what Vg is on an Airbus...
Tristar
Pattern Altitude
According to one of the accident investigators a few days later, the Citation crashed for a similar reason; bird impact. Birds are a hazard you can only avoid to a certain extent, especially at night.
AWACSEng
Cleared for Takeoff
I honestly feel that practicing the loss of all power is a waste of valuable sim time. There are countless scenarios that can cause this, and depending on the phase of flight, it is pointless to even try anything other than brace for impact. We practice the loss of 2 engines in the sim every trip, but we also have 2 others to rely on. We also practice the scenario that brought down Yukla 27 because that is the worst conceivable scenario for us. A loss of ALL engines is just too far fetched to burn valuable sim time when we could be using it for things that have and do happen on a more regular basis. Yes it is feasable to lose all engines as we've seen, but it is just one of those things that falls back on systems knowledge and pure airmanship to recover from.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Flocks of birds have taken out many airplanes on take off. KC135 in Abilene Texas in the 1980s. Another in Alaska, year I do not recall.
This is nothing new.
We used to report and monitor bird migration with ATC radar in the late 70s. Their belly fully of water and flying in formation were great radar reflectors.
This is nothing new.
We used to report and monitor bird migration with ATC radar in the late 70s. Their belly fully of water and flying in formation were great radar reflectors.
AWACSEng
Cleared for Takeoff
September 22, 1995.