Amazing Audio Of Passenger Landing King Air.

Geico266

Touchdown! Greaser!
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This is an amazing audio / FAA radar screen recording of a passenger (low time SEL pilot) having to land the King Air 200 with 5 people on board after the pilot died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhMom-YHgoU

38 mins, but worth it!

I wonder if he'll get in trouble for being a PIC without the proper ratings? :rofl:
 
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At about 9:18 the controller asks if he's doing alright on the descent and he replies "oh we're having a hoot, down to 16K at 1000fpm"

Having a HOOT? What a trip!

GO MAN GO!
 
Great audio. It seemed like ATC took a long time to clear the frequency. One would have thought they could have cleared it out sooner then they did.
 
What's a "Master Caution"? I can't imagine it is a good thing.
The Master Caution is an amber annunciator mounted on the glareshield or somewhere right in front of your eyes which illuminates when one of the other, smaller, caution annunciators illuminate. You might not notice one of these other annunciators if you are not looking at them so the function of the Master Caution is to draw your attention to the fact that you might want to take a look around the panel. It does not necessarily indicate a bad problem especially since it's the Master Caution and not the Master Warning which is next to it and red.
 
from Doug White's AOPA interview:


“There were buzzers, amber lights, horns: It was like a circus. The only thing I was concentrating on was keeping the airspeed up and the wings level. You know, just fly the plane.”

“It was a greaser, to be honest,” he said. “It didn’t jump or skip. It just set down and stopped in 3,500 feet or less. I asked which taxiway they wanted me to use.”

“I’m surrounded by cops, ambulances, and firemen in protective suits – and I didn’t know how to shut the plane down.”

“My wife was shaking the whole time,” White said. “My baby squalled, and my 18-year-old threw up.”

Eventually, I’d like to fly the King Air again – but only with the proper experience and training,”

“You just focus your fear and go into a zone,” he said. “There’s no time to chit-chat, or lock up. Just ‘git er done.’'

White also said Cabuk, the deceased pilot, set an excellent example. “He was a real professional pilot and a great guy,” “If I could be half the pilot he was, I’d be tickled.”
 
I hate to say it, since he did such a good job, but listening to the audio should serve as a good reminder to CFIs:

Teaching pilots that they must "fly the numbers" at all times can leave them unprepared for uncertainties. This pilot repeatedly requested that he be given the exact amount of throttle to reduce, and the exact airspeed to fly etc.

He would have been just fine, and more at ease if he just flew the plane above stall speed and at a comfortable descent rate.
 
The Master Caution is an amber annunciator mounted on the glareshield or somewhere right in front of your eyes which illuminates when one of the other, smaller, caution annunciators illuminate. You might not notice one of these other annunciators if you are not looking at them so the function of the Master Caution is to draw your attention to the fact that you might want to take a look around the panel. It does not necessarily indicate a bad problem especially since it's the Master Caution and not the Master Warning which is next to it and red.

The pilot also mentioned an "AP Disc" (autopilot disconnect) which I'd be willing to bet was the source of the master caution. In any case I think he was well advised to ignore it.

There are a few nits I'd pick with ATC's handling of the emergency such as the obvious total lack of pilot experience the first controller had which resulted in an undesirable and unnecessary climb to 15,000 ft. That controller seemed to have a very difficult time understanding that the altitude alerter was set to 10,000 and the plane continued to climb well above that. Other things like having the pilot descend before he understood how to manage the engine thrust and most importantly the constant chatter with other traffic could have been handled better IMO. For instance I'd think ATC would have a preplanned way to eliminate anyone else from checking in on the frequency by automatically alerting any other controller feeding the sector to use an alternate freq tied to an extra controller. I was under the impression that normal proceedures for a situation like this involve dedicating one controller to the airplane with the emergency yet this one seemed to be rather busy with many other aircraft. I was also surprised that the pilot was told to switch frequencies without a very clear plan for ensuring he wouldn't go NORDO in the process. There was at least some discussion about that but it seemed incomplete to me.

I understand that it's impractical to expect that all controllers be experienced pilots, but I'd think that it wouldn't be difficult or expensive to expose them to some of the pertinent basics as a standard part of their training.

Did anyone else catch the PIC's weak response to ATC just before he keeled over? That was pretty scary in itself.
 
The pilot also mentioned an "AP Disc" (autopilot disconnect) which I'd be willing to bet was the source of the master caution.
That's probably true. From what little I remember of the King Air, if you disconnected the AP in certain ways you would get a master caution. What ways those were I don't remember and it also differed by individual airplane.
 
I would pay to hear the pilot tell this story over a beer. Judging by his accent and coolness under fire, I know it would be an enjoyable and entertaining evening.

Not sure why he didn't just turn the AP off to begin with, but what ever decisions he made worked.
 
I don't know just what he considers "low time," but I think he did a great job a) not panicking, b) controlling an unfamiliar plane, and c) talking with the controllers! If it weren't for the unfortunate fact of the deceased pilot, that would be a GA pilot's dream. It could have turned out very differently had there not been someone with some presence of mind in the right seat. It didn't have to be a pilot, but that certainly helped!
 
Damn, I really like that pilot. He did a great job of keeping his head. That first controller on the other hand....:mad3:
 
I think this was one of the few GA audio clips that I could listen to without being embarassed. For a low time pilot (I'm assuming <400 hours), he did a good job.

I was also impressed that ATC was able to find a KA pilots in 15 minutes. It's interesting how most of the comments on YouTube praise ATC and not the pilot - more of the "ATC is flying the plane" perception.

Felix
 
Imagine if the left seater had died flying an approach in weather instead of climbing out on auto pilot.

Yea, that guy in the right seat did a hell of a job
 
I hate to say it, since he did such a good job, but listening to the audio should serve as a good reminder to CFIs:

Teaching pilots that they must "fly the numbers" at all times can leave them unprepared for uncertainties. This pilot repeatedly requested that he be given the exact amount of throttle to reduce, and the exact airspeed to fly etc.

He would have been just fine, and more at ease if he just flew the plane above stall speed and at a comfortable descent rate.
Yeah, but Nick, he didn't know the stall speed/configuation matrix. What do you do at ZERO time in type with your wife and kid on board- practice slow flight at 16,000 with the gear and flaps out?

I mean, I know 110 on final really dirty, is about right. But IF i were called upon to land a type I had ZERO time in, I'd want the speed TOLD to me. Not, well let's lookie here and find out what Vref for my weight is today....
 
Yeah, but Nick, he didn't know the stall speed/configuation matrix. What do you do at ZERO time in type with your wife and kid on board- practice slow flight at 16,000 with the gear and flaps out?

I mean, I know 110 on final really dirty, is about right. But IF i were called upon to land a type I had ZERO time in, I'd want the speed TOLD to me. Not, well let's lookie here and find out what Vref for my weight is today....

I agree. He would have been better to ask "What is the stall speed?" and flown above that the whole time.

Does the King Air have the white arc on the ASI?
 
Does the King Air have the white arc on the ASI?

Yes, if it has steam gauges (sounds like this one did. If it's been converted to Chelton etc the stall speed would still be marked but might not be in view during cruise, something to think about WRT EFIS.
 
I agree. He would have been better to ask "What is the stall speed?" and flown above that the whole time.

Does the King Air have the white arc on the ASI?
Yes, here is a picture. However, I don't agree with your "any speed above stall speed" theory. The red line at about 90 knots is Vmc which you don't want to get below in a twin unless you are pretty much touching down. Just like any airplane, it will be much more stable at 120 knots than at 90. It's pretty forgiving but I wouldn't want to be a pilot who had only flown small singles flying a King Air around just above stall speed, unsupervised. Any tendency towards hamfistedness with the throttles might really get out of hand for someone not accustomed to flying a twin. I think his instinct to ask for an airspeed was correct. That's what I would do too if I was flying an airplane that was completely unfamiliar to me. It isn't like you need to be right on the airspeed but it's good to have a target.

Someone else was asking about the master caution which is the right of the two rectangular annunciators on the glareshield.
 

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if you disconnected the AP in certain ways you would get a master caution. What ways those were I don't remember and it also differed by individual airplane.
snip
The pilot also mentioned an "AP Disc" (autopilot disconnect) which I'd be willing to bet was the source of the master caution.

in this flight, the autopilot was disconnected much earlier, the pilot asked "what does 'ap disc' mean?" and we know he was handflying it for some time.

I suspect it was some other thing like autofeather not armed or prop sync on....
 
I finally took the 38 minutes needed to watch this and listen... WOW. Nice job by all involved. Always things that can be done better, but you have to respect the outcome. He sounded close to tears from stress relief as he signed off... I can't blame him, especially with the family in the back seat and his contract/mentor pilot (and friend, from what I've read) dead in the left seat.
 
I finally took the 38 minutes needed to watch this and listen... WOW. Nice job by all involved. Always things that can be done better, but you have to respect the outcome. He sounded close to tears from stress relief as he signed off... I can't blame him, especially with the family in the back seat and his contract/mentor pilot (and friend, from what I've read) dead in the left seat.

I would say, under the circumstances, he did quite well. I would hope I would be as cool under fire with that many lives in my hands, flying a plane I'm not qualified to fly.

I wonder if the FAA yelled at him for not having the proper ratings? :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Yes, here is a picture. However, I don't agree with your "any speed above stall speed" theory. The red line at about 90 knots is Vmc which you don't want to get below in a twin unless you are pretty much touching down. Just like any airplane, it will be much more stable at 120 knots than at 90. It's pretty forgiving but I wouldn't want to be a pilot who had only flown small singles flying a King Air around just above stall speed, unsupervised. Any tendency towards hamfistedness with the throttles might really get out of hand for someone not accustomed to flying a twin. I think his instinct to ask for an airspeed was correct. That's what I would do too if I was flying an airplane that was completely unfamiliar to me. It isn't like you need to be right on the airspeed but it's good to have a target.

Someone else was asking about the master caution which is the right of the two rectangular annunciators on the glareshield.

I agree. The heavier and faster the airplane, the more important it is (and the nicer the plane will be to you) to be on speed. And as you mentioned, the throttles are very touchy. It takes a very gentle hand to make a big difference in aircraft performance, so having some general power setting/airspeed in mind will go miles toward making a semi-stabilized approach.

in this flight, the autopilot was disconnected much earlier, the pilot asked "what does 'ap disc' mean?" and we know he was handflying it for some time.

I suspect it was some other thing like autofeather not armed or prop sync on....

I would bet it's the autofeather. Assuming the KA flows are similar to what we did in the 1900: the AFX has a switch that has "off" and "arm" positions. It is armed before takeoff, and not shut off until the cruise flow/checklist. It's then re-armed on the approach/in-range checklist. With the switch in the "arm" position, the autofeather itself won't actually be armed until the power levers pass a certain point in their travel (6*, if memory serves), and a specific torque setting.

When advancing or retarding power, if the engines don't move exactly together or if you have some split in the power levers one AFX will arm (or disarm) before the other which sets off a Master Caution. In some airplanes, it's quite possible to have the Caution light going off multiple times during the approach, because the point at which the AFX arms itself is usually right in the middle of the range for the approach power settings.

Barring anything else being wrong with the airplane, that'd be my guess for the caution flasher. I'm pretty sure the KA/1900 (at least the older ones like ours) could be landed with the props back; they weren't monitored by any caution systems.
 
Speaking of AF, Teller - what is the cost of leaving it on in cruise? I figured there must be some wear item that was going to result in expense....and that is why it's shut off.
 
Speaking of AF, Teller - what is the cost of leaving it on in cruise? I figured there must be some wear item that was going to result in expense....and that is why it's shut off.

Hmmm. I always thought that it was off in cruise so that it wouldn't inadvertently activate, creating a problem when there was little or no benefit from having it on. I'd be interested in hearing the real reason.
 
What a cool cat under some incredible pressure. :thumbsup:
As it should be. The ability to stay calm and collected - an ability many people don't have - goes a long way toward ensuring a successful outcome. Accidents almost always end badly if the pilots don't stay calm....
 
Alright, I pulled out the old manual. I had it mostly right.

With the switch in arm, the "arming phase is completed only when both power levers are advanced above 90% N1 and engine torque is above 1000ft-lbs. When armed, the green L and R AUTOFEATHER and L and R AFX annunciators are illuminated. The AFX DISABLE annunciator [caution light that triggers master caution flasher] annunciator is extinguished. The afx system will be inoperative on either engine as long as its power lever is retarded below 90% NL."

"The autofeather system is required to be armed and operable for flight during takeoff, climb, approach, and landing, and should be turned off in cruise. When the system is armed, if torque meter oil pressure on either engine drops below 350 ft-lbs., oil is dumped from the dome, the feathering spring starts the blades toward feather, and the afx system of the other engine is disarmed..."

That's all the more specific it gets, but we were told that it should be shut off 1) because when it's on you stand a pretty good chance of getting a master caution flasher every time you adjust power through that magic 1000 ft-lb point, and 2) large power changes that aren't perfectly even run the risk of causing the AFX system to operating, causing engine surges and unscheduled feathering. Mostly we shut it off because that's what the checklist says, and it causes a lot of nuisance lights. I think Lance is right, and Dave, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a cost savings to limiting the wear on the sensors, too.

As a bit of trivia: AFX is not armed for landing in the Q, so a go-around with an engine failure results in a negative-auto-feather takeoff condition. It's a real PITA.
 
I would pay to hear the pilot tell this story over a beer. Judging by his accent and coolness under fire, I know it would be an enjoyable and entertaining evening.

Not sure why he didn't just turn the AP off to begin with, but what ever decisions he made worked.

Geico, If I ever get close to Crete I will look you up and take you up on your offer. I did land King Air 559DW in Nebraska awhile back. Somewhere around Fremont or Omaha. Will have to check where, specifically.
Doug White
 
Geico, If I ever get close to Crete I will look you up and take you up on your offer. I did land King Air 559DW in Nebraska awhile back. Somewhere around Fremont or Omaha. Will have to check where, specifically.
Doug White

Doug, I was living in Ft Myers at the time working on my PPL and remember listing to the Live ATC a few times after it happened. Ft Myers approach are good people to have helping out.

When did you finish king air training?

Mike
 
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Geico, If I ever get close to Crete I will look you up and take you up on your offer. I did land King Air 559DW in Nebraska awhile back. Somewhere around Fremont or Omaha. Will have to check where, specifically.
Doug White

Doug White, you are the man... :yes:
 
I was about to be really annoyed at someone for bumping a 5 year old topic but WAHHHHHHH! Doug White on PoA!!! SO MUCH HYPE!!!!

Thank you for answering every pilots daydream when they're on a airline, of being able to answer the call of "is anyone here a pilot?" Great job man, I too would love to hear your story and would happily buy you a beer.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you could show up at pretty much any airport and get lots of free beer from the pilots there. You've earned it.
 
I work with so many people from Louisiana so I had a good guess where the pilot was from.

Awesome audio. I sent this to my friend who is afraid of flying with the intentions of getting him some actual CFI time incase he ever needed it.
 
Geico, If I ever get close to Crete I will look you up and take you up on your offer. I did land King Air 559DW in Nebraska awhile back. Somewhere around Fremont or Omaha. Will have to check where, specifically.
Doug White

Doug, please register on POA and join us. It's not often someone here gets immediate rock star status. Welcome! :cheers:
 
Geico, If I ever get close to Crete I will look you up and take you up on your offer. I did land King Air 559DW in Nebraska awhile back. Somewhere around Fremont or Omaha. Will have to check where, specifically.
Doug White

Good work. How many of your nine lives are left?

Love how the tower gave you 121.9 after you landed. Couldn't help themselves :rofl:
 
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