Almost done, but please help!

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
9,488
Display Name
Display name:
Ben
Today was flight #2 of the Cirrus checkout. Steep turns, stalls, unusual attitudes, approaches, failures, engine-out--all fine. But my landings. Ugh. Weird: I did four, and the first two were good, and the last two were not. I am ground shy and flaring too high.

I have GOT to fix this!

My instructor said everything's fine--maybe 30 minutes more to do 4 or 5 landings and I'm good. But now I'm getting psyched out. I am flaring too high and always saving with power.

Please, anyone with this odd sort of trouble, 11 years into flying, HELP.
 
Henning said:
Don't flare so high....;)
Click to expand...

LOL, I got that much!

The sight picture, coupled with being ground-shy. I'm just leveling too high, but I can't trust myself to start later!
 
spiderweb said:
LOL, I got that much!

The sight picture, coupled with being ground-shy. I'm just leveling too high, but I can't trust myself to start later!
Click to expand...

I'll tell you the same thing I tell everybody and what I do when checking myself out in a single seat plane, taxi down the full length of the runway a few times with the nose off the ground and in landing attitude to burn in that sight picture that you're transitioning to.
 
Henning said:
I'll tell you the same thing I tell everybody and what I do when checking myself out in a single seat plane, taxi down the full length of the runway a few times with the nose off the ground and in landing attitude to burn in that sight picture that you're transitioning to.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea, I had forgotten about!
 
I needed two flights in checkout for the 150 to get the landings right. We did a lot of landings. At first I felt like that was too long, but it was less than 2 hours on the hobbs.

If you need three flights they are just waiting until they think you are safe. It should come to you soon. And sometimes it is easy to overthink things.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I needed two flights in checkout for the 150 to get the landings right. We did a lot of landings. At first I felt like that was too long, but it was less than 2 hours on the hobbs.

If you need three flights they are just waiting until they think you are safe. It should come to you soon. And sometimes it is easy to overthink things.
Click to expand...

The Cirrus is a much more major checkout, the avionics alone are an hour if you know the systems.
 
Also, if you're not doing it already, look at the far end of the runway.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Like the oh crap handle up top?
Click to expand...

There's an extra 10 minutes, yep, and that's one little thing. The thing I found it took longest to get in the Cirrus was the damned trim, I have heard that the later models have finer control. The biggie though is the radio/panel set up, that takes a bit.
 
Sometimes these little catch phrases help, you never know what clicks with someone's head... So...

Stop trying to land above the runway. ;)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I needed two flights in checkout for the 150 to get the landings right. We did a lot of landings. At first I felt like that was too long, but it was less than 2 hours on the hobbs.

If you need three flights they are just waiting until they think you are safe. It should come to you soon. And sometimes it is easy to overthink things.
Click to expand...

That's my style!

My CFI already thinks I'm safe--it is really I who am requesting one more flight, because my landings are NOT reliable; and they usually are good in most airplanes I fly.

All the IFR stuff was fine, all the airwork was fine (second lesson), and got better as we went.

I am going to use this plane for my 300 - 400 mile trips I take a few times a year, and I'd hate to end each one with a hammer-on!
 
Henning said:
The Cirrus is a much more major checkout, the avionics alone are an hour if you know the systems.
Click to expand...

Right.

Even before the first flight, I had a 30+ page workbook I had to fill out. Took about 7 hours, but I know all the systems.

Then I had to review the procedures guide.

Then I had my first flight.

Then I went over G1000 OPS in general (with which I am very familiar), and studied the chapter on Perspective in the Trescott book.

So today, most everything went quite well, with a couple of small exceptions (I improved airspeed control on approaches, and in the pattern, for example).

The only major thing was the inconsistent landings, which should be easy.
 
Everskyward said:
Also, if you're not doing it already, look at the far end of the runway.
Click to expand...

That's not helping me, for some reason. I think the sight picture is so different, even when looking at the end of the runway, I think I'm going to nose it in.
 
denverpilot said:
Sometimes these little catch phrases help, you never know what clicks with someone's head... So...

Stop trying to land above the runway. ;)
Click to expand...

That's what I've been saying to myself, haha!
 
Fly a cheaper plane that you're not afraid to proing in?

It'll come to you. I can remember the first couple of times I tried to flare the Commander like the 172's I was used to. Doesn't work that way. :nono:
 
rpadula said:
Fly a cheaper plane that you're not afraid to proing in?

It'll come to you. I can remember the first couple of times I tried to flare the Commander like the 172's I was used to. Doesn't work that way. :nono:
Click to expand...

Yeah, but at least you had trailing link gear to soften the blow... :)
 
spiderweb said:
Right.

Even before the first flight, I had a 30+ page workbook I had to fill out. Took about 7 hours, but I know all the systems.

Then I had to review the procedures guide.

Then I had my first flight.

Then I went over G1000 OPS in general (with which I am very familiar), and studied the chapter on Perspective in the Trescott book.

So today, most everything went quite well, with a couple of small exceptions (OI improved airspeed control on approaches, and in the pattern, for example).

The only major thing was the inconsistent landings, which should be easy.
Click to expand...

In other words you slowed down, now slow down some more and do it consistently at that speed.
 
Henning said:
In other words you slowed down, now slow down some more and do it consistently at that speed.
Click to expand...

I think it will be good that the last checkout is essentially only going to be on landings. We will do one more approach, but after that I'll do the fast-taxi thing, then several landings.

Hoping that at that point, I have it consistent!

I'll also be flying a lot more this summer, so that will help.
 
spiderweb said:
I think it will be good that the last checkout is essentially only going to be on landings. We will do one more approach, but after that I'll do the fast-taxi thing, then several landings.

Hoping that at that point, I have it consistent!

I'll also be flying a lot more this summer, so that will help.
Click to expand...

Ben,

I have not flown a Cirrus, but have read that they have longer landing distances due to the more efficient wing. Maybe it'll just take a little while to get used to its relative performance compared to what you've usually been flying.

Good luck, man. :thumbsup:
 
rpadula said:
Ben,

I have not flown a Cirrus, but have read that they have longer landing distances due to the more efficient wing. Maybe it'll just take a little while to get used to its relative performance compared to what you've usually been flying.

Good luck, man. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

That is very true. Important to stay on the numbers because if too slow, it really mushes (as I found in the slow flight regime), but if too fast, it floats a long time.
 
Henning said:
I'll tell you the same thing I tell everybody and what I do when checking myself out in a single seat plane, taxi down the full length of the runway a few times with the nose off the ground and in landing attitude to burn in that sight picture that you're transitioning to.
Click to expand...

That is a good technique.

On approach to landing hold the plane off the runway 2-3' and add throttle so you don't land. Set that picture in your head and slowly descend and touch down. Good practice to hold the nose wheel off the ground also. ;)
 
Are you flying the G3 with the wide blade composite prop?

If so that thing will definitely affect landings.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Are you flying the G3 with the wide blade composite prop?

If so that thing will definitely affect landings.
Click to expand...

It is the Perspective, and it is a three-blade, but the prop is aluminum.

JOOC, how does the composite affect landings?
 
Go to KMWH, land there, if you can not flare high there, you won't flare high anywhere :)
 
spiderweb said:
It is the Perspective, and it is a three-blade, but the prop is aluminum.

JOOC, how does the composite affect landings?
Click to expand...

The latest version G3 uses a VERY wide blade composite prop. It acts like a giant speed brake when you pull the power back. So if you land it like anything else and pull out the power in the roundout then it just drops you hard. I had to leave a little in, even in the flair, to get it on smoothly. I believe the concept is to have the effect of speed brakes for descent or slowing in the pattern (like the 400 has) without the cost. It really does work well, just takes some time to get used to.
 
Alexb2000 said:
The latest version G3 uses a VERY wide blade composite prop. It acts like a giant speed brake when you pull the power back. So if you land it like anything else and pull out the power in the roundout then it just drops you hard. I had to leave a little in, even in the flair, to get it on smoothly. I believe the concept is to have the effect of speed brakes for descent or slowing in the pattern (like the 400 has) without the cost. It really does work well, just takes some time to get used to.
Click to expand...

Ah I see!
 
Thing about using a prop for a speed brake is that equal and opposite reaction it has on the crank and engine components.
 
Alexb2000 said:
The latest version G3 uses a VERY wide blade composite prop. It acts like a giant speed brake when you pull the power back. So if you land it like anything else and pull out the power in the roundout then it just drops you hard. I had to leave a little in, even in the flair, to get it on smoothly. I believe the concept is to have the effect of speed brakes for descent or slowing in the pattern (like the 400 has) without the cost. It really does work well, just takes some time to get used to.
Click to expand...

The composite prop is standard only on the turbo models. It is needed above 18k'. The wide blade grabs more of what little air is there. The speed brake use is a side effect but wasn't the reason for the prop change. Glide distance is less with the composite prop.
 
peppy said:
The composite prop is standard only on the turbo models. It is needed above 18k'. The wide blade grabs more of what little air is there. The speed brake use is a side effect but wasn't the reason for the prop change. Glide distance is less with the composite prop.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I didn't know it was a Turbo only option. I got the speed brake thing from the Plane Smart guys and it really does feel like a speed brake IMO. That prop also seems to have a lot of bite climbing from low altitude as well. Maybe a good tradeoff for glide distance.
 
Henning said:
Thing about using a prop for a speed brake is that equal and opposite reaction it has on the crank and engine components.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting thought. It has to be hard on those componenets. I think I'd rather have "real" speed brakes like on many Mooneys.
 
Anthony said:
That's an interesting thought. It has to be hard on those componenets. I think I'd rather have "real" speed brakes like on many Mooneys.
Click to expand...

I have blown about 100 connecting rods racing, you know when mostly they blow? When I lift my foot from the throttle in the traps.
 
peppy said:
The composite prop is standard only on the turbo models. It is needed above 18k'. The wide blade grabs more of what little air is there. The speed brake use is a side effect but wasn't the reason for the prop change. Glide distance is less with the composite prop.
Click to expand...

I see. Interesting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top