Alec Baldwin shoots and kills cinematographer.

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Kenny Phillips, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think there will always be uncertainty about that.
     
  2. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    another scenario (I don't know why I'm doing this, I really don't care about anything other than that poor woman)........you come in for your pitstop during a nascar race. you have tire changer specialist dudes, fuel filler upper specialist dudes, whatever the F else they do during a pitstop specialist dudes.....do u get out and check what each one did? NO, they are supposed to be specialists in what they do, that's what they're paid to do. you slam on the gas when they are done doing their thing and expect what they did was done at a professional level. then the crew has their little circle jerk because they changed tires in under 20 seconds or whatever it is. if the tank explodes the next lap, or a tire goes flat, you don't blame the driver.

    with all that being said, and again I'm done 'arguing' because it's so stupid and typical these days, especially when we don't know the facts, but what I don't understand is if the crew isn't supposed to be in the line of fire, what happened there? oh, that and also how the F an actual bullet ended up in the gun, if in fact that's what happened.

    anyways, back to my jack daniels.
     
  3. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sorry eman, but the actor should be as well versed in safety as the armorer. This set sounds like it was a disaster, and people who know were afraid and complained about it. 3 "misfires" before this tragedy, in one week. "Misfires" mostly likely caused by untrained people pulling a trigger when they should not have.

    From one of the articles, the assistant, grabbed the weapon from a table of three (inexcusable leaving guns out unattended), declared it safe without even looking at it, gave it to Baldwin, who didn't check it. So many things wrong, but once again, the fatal error, was Baldwin pointing a gun in a direction he had no business pointing it, then pulling the trigger. Just inexcusable. It rightly would have scared the crap out of the cinematographer if it hadn't gone off. Unfortunately it did go off. Inexcusable.
     
  4. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I honestly doubt it would be much different.

    Alec Baldwin established himself a well known a-hole LONG before he took a political side.

    I personally can't stand the orange man you refer to and laughed my butt off at the SNL impression, but that doesn't mean I like Alec Baldwin.
     
  5. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Latest reports are sure making it sound like a projectile. A lot more use of the word 'bullet' than 'blank round'.
     
  6. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hey Alec Baldwin, Remember when you mocked Dick Cheney for shooting a guy?.....irony?o_O
     
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  7. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is starting to sound more and more like there was an actual bullet in the gun.....which begs the question - what in the hell were they doing with actual bullets on the set mixing them up with prop guns? There are some significant controls that were disregarded.
     
  8. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think "prop guns" is a misnomer too. These are real guns, used as movie props.
     
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  9. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Normally, a “misfire” is when a gun doesn’t fire when you pull the trigger.

    Seems like what you’re referring to here is more an “accidental discharge”.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  10. asicer

    asicer Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I see what you did there.

    However, I'm not sure how quickly you did it.
     
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  11. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    “Negligent discharge.” Not accidental. Negligent.
     
  12. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    To me, this is the bizarre thing. How in the world does even a single round of live ammo make it onto the set? If I was in control of the firearms on a movie or show, I'd shut the whole thing down if a live round (not a blank) found its way onto the movie lot/set.
     
  13. RyanShort1

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    As you've framed is, yes they are, because no matter their personal views, if they portray them as a person someone aspires to be like, that's problematic. However, there is a difference between portraying someone sympathetically, and portraying them as the moral superior.
    Again, depends on how it's portrayed. Then, too, in times of unrest, I'm pretty sure carrying broadswords would have been quite normal for travelers in any culture with highway robbers and no one would've blinked.
    So an attempt to deny the credibility of my arguments as a lead-in? Bad tactic.
    Also, my criticism of Baldwin would be the same if he was a Trump sycophant.
    Uh, there's a LOT of room for disagreement about that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  14. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Maybe a weapon rented from someone else?
     
  15. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It just seems like you've gotta unload every firearm that comes on-set and individually check every blank round you bring on the set, just in case. The penalty for screwing this up is a big one.
     
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  16. RyanShort1

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    Yep.
     
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  17. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    How many film sets have you been on? And Baldwin didn't get the gun from a specialist, he got it from the 1st AD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  18. Warlock

    Warlock Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I suspect in the future we will see the “Baldwin Defense” when it comes to negligent shootings…
     
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  19. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It sounds like you've had experience with guns and training in firearm safety. Maybe the same is true of Baldwin, but do we know that?
     
  20. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It doesn’t matter. By picking it up he assumed responsibility for what resulted from his actions. Of course factors may mitigate it some but does not eliminate his responsibility.
     
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  21. Wheels

    Wheels Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It should be a requirement if he is going to handle them as part of his job.
     
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  22. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's all fun and games.....till someone loses an eye. o_O
     
  23. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No reason it couldn’t be both. Or one or the other. But I don’t want to drag this down into semantics or pedantry, so I’ll leave it there.
     
  24. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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  25. BladeSlap

    BladeSlap Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If he didn’t have training, that’s his fault too.

    For how quickly people here blamed a guy who went out with friends only to get stabbed, major soft spot for a B list actor who at best, through gross negligence, shot someone to death.

    Negligent homicide?
     
  26. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Yes. He would have had it before he ever handled a gun on set, even if not before.
     
  27. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    :eek:

    I think I've had 2 in a lifetime and both were malfunctions with the gun pointed safely downrange. One was a faulty decocking feature on a super cheap CZ-52 handgun(a known flaw I was ready for). The other was a dirty firing pin on an SKS causing a slam fire... again a known issue I was ready for.
     
  28. RyanShort1

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    Yeah. If that's true, there's NO excuse for not double checking - but I suspect there's a level of arrogance / expectation that it's someone else's job to check.
     
  29. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    For whatever reason, you know that you should never accept the assertion of another that a gun is safe. I know that because I've read this thread. I'm just not sure that it's realistic to expect that level of awareness of people who are not trained on gun safety.
     
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  30. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I agree. Was that a requirement on this production?
     
  31. Daleandee

    Daleandee Pattern Altitude

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    People not trained on gun safety should not be handling a gun!
     
  32. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Perhaps, but I would say that if the crew didn't provide the training, then they were more at fault.

    On the other hand, he was serving as producer too. Whether producers typically get into that level of detail, I don't know.

    I was not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  33. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    People who haven't been trained on gun safety may not know that.
     
  34. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    It really doesn’t matter. In the end, the person holding the gun is responsible for its use. Period.
     
  35. BladeSlap

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    He doesn’t know guns can be dangerous?

    Part of his politics stick was guns are bad and dangerous
     
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  36. Daleandee

    Daleandee Pattern Altitude

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    Awww ... then they must be a special kind of stupid to play around with deadly force and not have the presence of mind to ask, "how does this thing work?"

    That's nearly akin to teaching yourself to fly except when teaching yourself to fly you generally only injure/kill yourself.
     
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  37. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    This is far from the first movie where he's handled guns. And if ****ty crew were hired, that's on him anyway.
     
  38. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Normal gun safety isn't that complicated.

    Always assume every gun is loaded at all times and keep it pointed in a safe direction.
    Always be sure of your target and what's beyond it
    Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

    Get all that right and there won't be any accidents, most gun training courses I've been to hit that in the first couple minutes. Then a little bit about the terminology, different actions, how to field dress if it's hunter's safety, and your state's laws. After that half hour is up you pretty much spend the rest of the government mandated training time swapping stories. I'm embellishing... but only slightly.


    Of course, when making a movie where it becomes necessary to actually point guns at people I'm sure the rules have to be different. Just pointing this out for those who aren't familiar with it.
     
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  39. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The conversation here is a little like expecting non-pilots to know the safety protocols that pilots know. If he had known about the protocol of checking a gun yourself even when the person who hands it to you says it's safe, it seems like he would have been more likely to do so.

    Regardless of what level of fault he is judged to have, the other links in the accident chain need to be considered too.
     
  40. Lachlan

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    You should get a law passed that says that. ;)