Airspace Call Signs

A

apr911

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
459
Display Name
Display name:
apr911
Hey all,

Several months ago I went flying with an instructor for club checkouts that took us through the Palm Springs TRSA.

I figured I'd participate in the TRSA and get flight following if possible and called out to Palm Springs Approach only to get no answer (more than once)... The instructor didnt comment on it until we were already close to leaving the TRSA by which point the value was lost but they said they probably weren't answering to Palm Springs and that I should have called out to SOCAL Approach. That seems wrong to me but on reflection, I did hear SOCAL approach called on the frequency...

Seeing as how its not listed on the sectional anywhere that they go by SOCAL, it got me thinking about other airspace idiosyncrasies I've noticed in California that just seem "unusual" to me based on my flight experiences in Texas, PA, NJ & NY as well as listening to ATC comms in the MD/DC/VA area...

1. What other airspaces use a name other than what they are listed as on a sectional or the major city. The last TSRA I flew into prior to this was Harrisburg, PA and they went by Harrisburg and aside from California I've not flown in/around/near a Class B that didn't go by the name of the city it serves.

2. While most airports seem to use the name printed on the sectional, San Diego Int'l uses Lindbergh Tower despite being listed on the sectional and TAC as San Diego Int'l... Why? What other airports are you aware of that do this? The only other one I can think of is Reagan National = Washington Tower

3. There are only 3 class B/C airports that are not controlled by NorCal or SoCal... March, Santa Barbara and Fresno.

There is plenty of precedent for using a single control for multiple airports when their airspaces overlap (in which case the larger airport/more restrictive airspace usually takes precedent for call sign) but what's with Los Angeles, Palm Springs and San Diego all going by SOCAL or Monterey, San Francisco, Sacramento, Beale and Reno (which isn't even in California) all using NORCAL despite being separated by a fair distance in each case.

I could only find 2 other other example of a non-overlapped airport using the same facility as a nearby neighboring airport:
A) Long Island Airport which uses New York and while it doesnt overlap, its less than 2.5NM from the NY Bravo at it's closest point so its far from being geographically separate
B) Manchester which uses Boston and while it doesnt overlap the actual Bravo, it does cross into the Mode C Veil

Still, there are plenty of examples of airports much closer together than the NORCAL/SOCAL airports or even Manchester that dont have the same approach; here's just 5 examples:
A) ACY encroaches on PHL mode C
B) TOL is less than 2.5NM from the DTW Bravo (and they managed to squeeze an airport in that 2.5 miles...)
C) CAK's surface area is almost inside the mode C veil and 5NM from the CLE Bravo
D) MCO and TPA are both Bravos with overlapping TACs and Mode C veils less than 10NM apart
E) The Baltimore/Washington TAC overlaps the Philadelphia TAC and has less than 20NM between Mode C veils; The Philadelphia TAC further overlaps the New York TAC has a Mode C veil just 10 NM apart


4. What's with Norcal/Socal in general? I can maybe understand NorCal for San Francisco as it is a mouth full on the radio and maybe even balancing that with SoCal for LA (as the busier airspace) or San Diego (since its technically 2 Bravos); though they are no more a mouthful than New York, San Antonio, Las Vegas or several other cities...

5. Perhaps the most important... How do you know/find out what to call a particular controller; particularly in scenarios 1 or 2 above or when
 
Try Fayetteville AR. They're Northwest Regional on ground and tower and Razorback on approach/departure. They get offended if you try to use Fayetteville.
 
I know you are a VFR pilot, but one tool you can use to determine the appropriate ATC name and frequency is any approach chart for that airport. Near the top of each chart is strip that lists that info. You can go to any site like Airnav to access the charats online.
 
Apr911, for your #5, the name of the approach facility appears in the A/FD. The easy way, of course, is to listen before you speak and note what the are being called or calling themselves.

There are a bunch of these throughout the country. The one I'm most familiar with is Denver Approach which provides services not only in the Denver area but for The Pueblo and Grand Junction Class D areas. If you look at Pueblo, you'll see there is a closer TRACON than Denver to it and that Grand Junction is almost 200 miles away from KDEN.
 
Manchester approach in NH is now Boston approach.
 
apr911 said:
Hey all,

Several months ago I went flying with an instructor for club checkouts that took us through the Palm Springs TRSA.

I figured I'd participate in the TRSA and get flight following if possible and called out to Palm Springs Approach only to get no answer (more than once)... The instructor didnt comment on it until we were already close to leaving the TRSA by which point the value was lost but they said they probably weren't answering to Palm Springs and that I should have called out to SOCAL Approach. That seems wrong to me but on reflection, I did hear SOCAL approach called on the frequency...

Seeing as how its not listed on the sectional anywhere that they go by SOCAL, it got me thinking about other airspace idiosyncrasies I've noticed in California that just seem "unusual" to me based on my flight experiences in Texas, PA, NJ & NY as well as listening to ATC comms in the MD/DC/VA area...
Click to expand...

TRSAs are treated differently than Class B and Class C airspace areas with regard to communications boxes on sectional charts. For Class B and Class C airspace the boxes contain the facility name and frequencies for that area. For TRSAs the boxes contain "SEE TWR FREQ TAB" and have the name of the airspace near them. Go to the frequency tab and you still won't find the facility name. Why it is that way is a mystery. That being said, assuming you had called "Palm Springs approach" on the proper TRSA frequency and the SOCAL controller heard you, he should have responded.
 
apr911 said:
1. What other airspaces use a name other than what they are listed as on a sectional or the major city.
Click to expand...
Dallas Fort Worth - the TAC tells you to contact Dallas-Ft Worth Approach, but they go by "Regional Approach".
 
You sure you were on the right freq?

I don't bother too much with names, I'll just call them all "approach"


Disappointing the instructor didn't instruct you when he saw you trying to do something with no success. Was this Jackson or Desert?
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
I don't bother too much with names, I'll just call them all "approach"
Click to expand...
This. Flying across the country, I've had a few occasions where Center handed me off with a southern drawl so thick I couldn't understand the name of the Approach, so I simply changed freq and called up "Approach". Works every time.
 
They are listed in the A/FD, and named in your handoff from Tower.

SoCal has three Class B airports, not just LAX. And NorCal's airspace includes Monterey, Sacramento, and even Reno, so it makes little sense to call it San Francisco. Especially since it's physically located at Mather. We use San Francisco Tower for low altitude Class B transitions and it's not a mouthful at all.

I got no answer yesterday from NorCal inbound to San Jose. They don't always use all frequencies. I reached them on another. This has happened once before, though in the boonies rather than approaching a busy Class C.
 
James331 said:
You sure you were on the right freq?

I don't bother too much with names, I'll just call them all "approach"


Disappointing the instructor didn't instruct you when he saw you trying to do something with no success. Was this Jackson or Desert?
Click to expand...
Yea. Approach or departure works fine
 
MAKG1 said:
They are listed in the A/FD, and named in your handoff from Tower.

SoCal has three Class B airports, not just LAX. And NorCal's airspace includes Monterey, Sacramento, and even Reno, so it makes little sense to call it San Francisco. Especially since it's physically located at Mather. We use San Francisco Tower for low altitude Class B transitions and it's not a mouthful at all.

I got no answer yesterday from NorCal inbound to San Jose. They don't always use all frequencies. I reached them on another. This has happened once before, though in the boonies rather than approaching a busy Class C.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, Sacramento International (SMF) is "Capitol Tower."
 
Fearless Tower said:
Dallas Fort Worth - the TAC tells you to contact Dallas-Ft Worth Approach, but they go by "Regional Approach".
Click to expand...

Interesting. I didn't know that. I just know to address them as "Regional Approach" and never actually bothered to look it up on a chart. Let me go do that now, you put a bug in my head, dangit. :)

Also, flying into the Washington, D.C. area, I can hear clueless pilots call "Washington Approach, Bugsmasher 12345 with you, checking in, 5,500" and the reply is usually "Bugsmasher 12345, Potomac Approach, altimeter 2992". :) And I wonder how many pilots will actually hear it, understand it and use it. I will pay more attention next time.
 
Pilawt said:
"Chinook Approach" is in central Washington State; and "Cascade Approach" serves non-contiguous areas around Eugene and Medford, Oregon.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it. I'll be potting along talking to SEA Center and if I'm too low I get handed off to Chinook Approach as I near Yakima and then back to SEA Center as I leave their area. A little higher and I never get handed off.
 
James331 said:
You sure you were on the right freq?

I don't bother too much with names, I'll just call them all "approach"


Disappointing the instructor didn't instruct you when he saw you trying to do something with no success. Was this Jackson or Desert?
Click to expand...


I was 'bout to say. I often do this as well.

There should only be one "approach" on any give frequency so the name is less important. They should respond to any call even if you use the 'wrong' name. e.g., "Calling SoCal Approach... say again"

But they should always say their name when they respond to you.
 
Fearless Tower said:
This. Flying across the country, I've had a few occasions where Center handed me off with a southern drawl so thick I couldn't understand the name of the Approach, so I simply changed freq and called up "Approach". Works every time.
Click to expand...
I've done that but I've also just mimicked what I heard phonetically with no idea what the actual name was and that works too. :D
 
Anything in the AIM against checking with "approach" ? Not suggesting it, but I have heard it on the radio.
 
I call em all approach unless I know for sure who I am talking to. In my flight across the us I talked to well over 100 controllers and never had an issue with this. I've also heard people call out all sorts of thing to SoCal controllers and always gotten a response. My guess, knowing the terrain around Palm Springs, is simply that your radio wasn't getting a clear transmission to them.

SoCal Tracon covers an awful lot of area, but all the controllers are sitting in a building in Miramar. Calling them Palm Springs, or LA or anything else related to a city doesn't really make sense because they aren't there, even if you are. If you fly a little higher you'll discover there's also LA and Oakland Centers to deal with in these same areas.
 
Listen to the other pilots. If they are using SoCal approach, use it.

Or.....and this always works "argbluc.ugh APPROACH...."
 
coloradobluesky said:
Listen to the other pilots. If they are using SoCal approach, use it.

Or.....and this always works "argbluc.ugh APPROACH...."
Click to expand...

I do that for approach or center...it just doesn't matter...
 
gismo said:
I've done that but I've also just mimicked what I heard phonetically with no idea what the actual name was and that works too. :D
Click to expand...
And this is how I learned about Mizzou approach.
 
I've called Oakland Center NorCal before, and they answered me (with their correct name, of course).

At low altitude, you can just lose contact, even close in. For instance, there is a dead spot near Carquinez Bridge below 2000 where you can't get NorCal nor Travis Approach.
 
BigBadLou said:
Also, flying into the Washington, D.C. area, I can hear clueless pilots call
Click to expand...

Or just set in their ways. Up until the establishment of the facility at Vint Hill, it was Washington (or Dulles or Baltimore or Richmond) approach.
 
A lot of the approach controls at Air Force Bases will be the name of the base.
Beaumont, TX has their own TRSA but it is still Houston Approach.
The high desert control in Nevada is Joshua Approach
Flying over Indiana in Terre Haute they call in Hulman Approach(local family that owns the Indy Speedway)
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Flying over Indiana in Terre Haute they call in Hulman Approach(local family that owns the Indy Speedway)
Click to expand...

And a lot of other things in Indiana. I got a resume from a guy from the Rose Hulman school of Engineering and I turn to my other hoosier coworker and said "That's got to be in Indiana somewhere."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top