Airlines face pilot shortage

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Dave Siciliano, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. Dave Siciliano

    Dave Siciliano Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    6,434
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Siciliano
    Did everyone see the WSJ article today at B7 that says the airlines face a pilot shortage that may slow the industries' growth? The International Air Transport Association reckons that the industry needs 3,000 more pilots per year than training schools can provide.

    Interesting to those interested in the bus., but has me scrathin my head with all the talk about merging and over capacity.

    Best,

    Dave
     
  2. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    42,567
    Location:
    Variable, but somewhere on earth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iBazinga!
    Were they talking world wide? If so that would explain it. Air travel is exploding overseas and there are plenty of open, decent paying pilot jobs.
     
  3. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Yes, pretty much. I have been hearing about imminent pilot shortages domestically for 25 years. They never seem to happen.
     
  4. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    42,567
    Location:
    Variable, but somewhere on earth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iBazinga!
    In the US I always imagine it is something like this: "There is a pilot shortage......at the rate at which we want to pay them"
     
  5. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Except there's not.

    Well, that may not be ENTIRELY true. Some of the regionals are having a hard time keeping pilots for that and other reasons. Mainly work rules.
     
  6. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    The numbers are real. Greg won't see the problem at his level for a few more years, but the regionals are already seriously hurting for co-pilots with sufficient operational experience to move straight into the right seat of an RJ and function effectively. If you want to learn more, go here and look for the General Aviation and Pilot Supply session on Day 2 -- presentations are posted.
     
  7. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,523
    Location:
    DC Suburbs
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bill S.
    Not surprised when a skilled person can earn a lot more in other industries (and get more respect, to boot). As the airlines insist on turning pilots into bus-drivers, they gotta realize that folks will leave.
     
  8. tdager

    tdager En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,490
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LittleIronPilot
    I have thought about becoming a professional pilot....for about three seconds.

    I am highly educated, can get the experience to meet the minimums, and would be dedicated to the profession.

    However I would have to take a 70% decrease in pay to start, and then MAYBE get back to where I am at today in another decade.

    No thanks.

    The airlines can cry about their pilot shortage, however until they up the payscale, they will continue to have one.
     
  9. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    17,057
    Location:
    Dallas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    It seems to me that the best way the airlines can help ameliorate the pilot shortage is to lobby for changes in federal law and processes which drive the costs of the flight training and general aviation flying necessary to produce qualified pilot candidates up dramatically.

    /sarcasm
     
  10. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Man, Spike. That is a word I have NEVER heard before. Care to speak English? :rofl:
     
  11. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,481
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Exactly, with the pay and quality of life issues as they have become, it just doesn't cut it.
     
  12. Ticket puncher

    Ticket puncher Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Wally
    Had an instructor I flew a couple of hours with that just got hired by a RJ.
    Eighteen months ago he was a private pilot. Then he enrolled in a school that got him through MEI. Then the school hired him as an ME instructor where he worked as an MEI and logged about 250 ME hours (total time probably less than 800 hours). At 29 years old with a HS diploma an RJ hired him, guaranteed him 75 hours a month for a little over 22K a year. Apparently his situation is not uncommon. I imagine that upgrade to Captain is several years away where pay is a little better but this guy is looking at P&J on a regular basis for many years. At least from what he told me the RJ's and the large carriers are indeed in need of pilots. I looked at the employment sections of some of the large carrier's web sites and they are hiring. According to him many of the surplus pilots from the Vietnam era that were hired by the airlines are now retiring and that is part of the shortage problem.

    Many years ago at 32 with a MS degree and an ATP and several hundred Hrs. of ME time I couldn't get any carrier to even answer the mail. How times have changed! But more power to those that can fulfill their ambitions.
     
  13. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,191
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    So long as their ambitions include huge debt and abysmal pay.
     
  14. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,545
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alaskaflyer
    With recent and impending bankruptcies I wonder if soon pilots will face an airline shortage?

    Talking stateside only, of course, but this cyclical effect may be short lived.
     
  15. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Very possible. I hope I survive. :mad:
     
  16. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,349
    Location:
    Bolingbrook, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    Oh, you'll survive, Greg. It's just where on the seniority list you'll find yourself..... sigh.
     
  17. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,483
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    This may dovetail nicely with my pseudo-retirement plans!
     
  18. Ghery

    Ghery Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Olympia, Washington
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ghery Pettit
    I hope you do. I've got plans next year for the over 440,000 miles I have banked in your frequent flyer program. :D
     
  19. mikea

    mikea Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    16,975
    Location:
    Lake County, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iWin
    Sure, sure, at the same time the airlines are trying to kill off GA entirely. They can pull out the checkbooks when they have to offer introductory be-a-pilot flights in 24 seat regional jets.
     
  20. KennyFlys

    KennyFlys Guest

    Today, I heard one person suggest they bring back regulation. It seems the legacy airlines will never learn how to operate with a profit in a free market.
     
  21. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,545
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alaskaflyer
    Just one? There is a host of people calling for partial or wholesale reregulation (they are tightly regulated as it is - just not as much as before the so-called "deregulation.")

    Will solve a lot problems while creating a bunch more IMO.
     
  22. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,558
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Ken, I have a comment. Upstarts have come and gone, but by and large, it has been the legacies that have survived. Yeah, it has been ugly. But that is partly, if not mostly, due to the fact that the upstarts come in and price the market at an unrealistic and unsustainable low level that the rest have to match. But they do not have the capital themselves to sustain their own pricing and go out of business. Things sort of stabilize until the next round of upstarts start the process all over again.

    I will not deny that some very inept managements have been running some of the legacies these days. Trust me, I am painfully aware of that.
     
  23. KennyFlys

    KennyFlys Guest

    These are a few reasons why I think some level of regulation would be in order. It's a given the old guard of the legacy carriers will never be replaced.

    Perhaps some stiff bonds to begin operation so it's not a mere shot at trying to make an upstart work. Even in those cases, the upper management tends to win for a short time and end up being secure for life unlike those doing the actual work.