Aircraft partnership sought (KGTU, KAUS, KHYI)

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Phillip, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    New PPL SEL checking in. Having completed my ppl training at an awesome flight school (props to www.pilotschoice.com) I've spent more than a few hours perusing barnstormers and trade-a-plane classifieds. While being an entertaining (and cheap!) pastime of visualizing having this long range Mooney or that RV ready at the moment notice to take me half the way across the country, the reality of no hangar space being available this side Mississippi has finally put a damper on daydreaming. Henceforth I've decided to seek partnership with someone more grounded than myself in the fine art of extracting noise from 100LL.

    I'm seeking partner or partners to share in the expense of owning and maintaining something fleet and fun to fly. My only set requirement is that the aircraft is single engine and IFR rated. I don't care if it is an AA1 Yankee small, long as it provides for a way to operate it with a safety pilot. Do you know of anybody in the Austin TX area looking for a partner to share in the expense of ownership? KGTU, KAUS, KHYI are all within an hour distance from my house.

    Phillip
     
  2. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Phillip, first welcome to the forums, and congratulations on gaining your "license to learn". :D I'm in south Austin and looking for additional partners and an aircraft, with another business associate. We should find some time to talk and maybe strike up a deal. As it stands now, we're looking at Tigers with IFR guts.

    Message me your info, and I'll call or text you and we'll go from there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  3. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    Hi Phillip, welcome to PoA.
    I too am based out of Austin. Are you looking for an instrument trainer, I take it?
     
  4. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well we just all need to go put our feedbags on and talk about dem aeroplanes!
     
  5. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    Hey Phillip!

    I fly out of KGTU. We're at the north T's right across from Pilot's Choice. I also did my training there (well, I did it in my plane but Ira was my primary CFI...flew with Beth a little (she signed me off to solo) and then did some touch up work with Emily before I went to my checkride). I punched my ticket about this time last year. Have about 180 hours right now...and climbing... :)

    I got lucky and found 3 guys looking for a 4th right after I started my training. They put a flyer up on the wall at Pilot's Choice. I'd check that out and also check out anyone looking over at Genesis (they just moved to that hangar over by the runup area departing 11). Go walk around the airport and talk to folks to see if they know anyone. Drive the T-hangars as well - I've seen signs posted before. I know there were a group of guys looking for a final partner in a Bonanza right by us...not sure if they still are.

    And hey, if you ever want to go do some flying let me know - I don't need much of an excuse. :)

    Shoot me a PM and I'll send you my contact info. Good luck!!
     
  6. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    I do not object at all to a local gathering.
    A piece of dead cow (hamburger) or some roadkill (chicken) would be very welcome while talking airplanes!
    Let's put something together.
     
  7. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    Hello from another Pilot's Choice graduate!

    I'm on the Board of the Chandelle Flying Club, we have a Warrior, Archer, and Cardinal RG in hangers at KAUS.

    We are a non-profit ownership club, i.e. the club owns the airplanes and each of the 28 members owns 1/28th of the club.

    The club has no paid employees, the airplanes are managed by the members. We do as much owner assisted maintenance as the law allows to help control costs.

    The airplanes are IFR equipped, well maintained and all three have funded overhaul reserves.

    We are by far the most economical way to fly quality GA airplanes in Central Texas.

    Please feel free to contact me directly and I can arrange for you to see the airplanes.

    Congratulations on your PPL!

    Edited to add: Also at KAUS are a Tiger and a Mooney that belong to well established partnerships. A lot of Chandelle members 'graduate' to the Mooney partnership.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  8. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well *****, I always forget about the Flying Club over there, and I keep meaning to come by.

    Jim, will someone be around there on Saturday afternoon? I have to pick up a demo headset from a guy at A&A over there. I would like to come by and, at least, pick your brain a bit.

    It may not fit my mission, but I want to at least go through the paces and see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  9. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    The airplanes are either flying or locked in the T-hangers. Flying our airplanes is exactly like flying an airplane owned only by you. Members have airplane and hanger keys. Many have key card access to the automobile gate. Members drive to the airport, unlock the hanger, pull the airplane, park their car in the hanger, and fly away.

    Or, if they are like me and kind of lazy, they call Signature and use the free valet parking. Given an hour or so notice Signature will pull the airplane and park it in front of the Executive Terminal next to one of Warren Buffet's airplanes. When you get back they'll put it away for you if you like.

    The only operational difference from sole ownership is that you schedule your flight with our web based scheduling program in advance. There is no 'desk', no 'sign in', and your access to the planes is 24/7.

    If you want to see the airplanes it's no problem. I'll PM you the contact information for the member who handles showing the airplane. He can over the details of how membership works with you.

    He'll work with your to schedule a time when the planes, you, and him are all available at the same time.

    You really ought to come take a look!
     
  10. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    I am. IFR is what I've started on. PilotsChoice is the venue, can't think of a better place to learn.
     
  11. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When working the grill, I will be asking you if you want Quadraped or Biped
     
  12. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Ken, I saw your 235 landing RWY 18 GTU august 14, as I was leaving for my check ride at BWD. It's white and blue, isn't it?

    I'll follow up on both of your suggestions (Genesis and hangar-check) next time I'm at GTU. Bonanza is too rich for me right now. I hear they are not that much to acquire but maintenance can be dear. Would love something simpler, 125+hp Yankee, a Tiger, a manual retract Mooney, an Archer 181, welded gear Cardinal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  13. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Jim, I swear I saw your avatar on twtex.com. Back when I was riding regularly...

    Chandelle is a good club. The only thing that keeps me from signing up right away is that I won't rate the Cardinal for a while, and I hear that Warrior might be going up for sale. So it's down to one plane for me then. And I have a choice of 5 Cherokees at GTU at just slightly more/hr, without the startup costs and monthly fees. If only I could fly that Cardinal with the new interior it got.
     
  14. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    Hey Phillip - yep that was me. Took my boys to El Paso for a long weekend to see my Dad and my sister (and their cousins). Fun trip. Yes, it's more grey than white but with a blue/maroon stripe. There's a pic link in my signature.

    Let's definitely get together for some dead animal carcass...either in town or load up some planes and hit KSEP or KAQO for some BBQ...
     
  15. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Advise if you're doing KSEP so we northern types can come town to meet ya.
     
  16. N2124v

    N2124v Line Up and Wait

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    I'm in, and hopefully by this time next week I'll have my very own, brand new to me Mooney M20E.
     
  17. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Mmm, biped meat? That doesn't sound nearly as delicious as saying bird, but I'll still eat it. ;p

    Ok, I think I added all you dern Texans to my friends list. Now let's go flyin!
     
  18. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    I understand about the Cardinal, it's a big jump from the Pipers. There is a lot of talk about selling one of the existing airplanes, but no decision has been made. There's only one day a year where that decision could be made, that's at our annual meeting in October.

    Rest assured that if we sell an airplane we will promptly replace it with a better one, probably an Archer or fixed gear Cardinal.

    Here is what I mean about parking your vehicle in the T-hanger:

    [​IMG]FJR and Cessna Cardinal by JimNtexas, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  19. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Nice FJR, Jim. I bet the Chandelle members would love an addition of a fixed gear Cardinal. The only wrinkle that I see is having to remember which one of the two you are in when it is time to put the gear down :). I saw a wheels up 182RG in the middle of GTU Rwy 18 in July. Both blades of the prop were bent, which made me think it was not the plane's malfunction...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  20. TravW

    TravW Filing Flight Plan

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    Just found out today that was Genesis' 182RG. I'd been wanting to rent it through the on-line scheduler for a few weeks it has been listed as "in maintenance." Finally checked just a few hours ago and it is in for an engine overhaul due to a prop strike. Don't know any details...:dunno:
     
  21. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    As long as you didn't see the other Cessna "wheels up" by the runway (it was a 172, IIRC), that's good. :) That happened about two weeks ago, IIRC. Both occupants crawled out alive, though upside down and noticeably shaken.
     
  22. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    I think that was a Cardinal...
     
  23. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    I might have been misinformed.
     
  24. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    I remember it parked by the pumps. Amazingly only wingtips seemed damaged. Tuff little plane. What happened there? How do you flip a plane like that? Ground loop it?
     
  25. N2124v

    N2124v Line Up and Wait

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    Isn't that the second Genesis plane to get bent this year?
     
  26. TravW

    TravW Filing Flight Plan

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    Yep, I believe it is.
     
  27. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    I was actually on final at KAQO when I watched a 172 barely make it off the deck and then crash into the woods just south of the airport. I landed and hung out (as I am landing I see a golf cart and a van go hauling ass by me out to the end of the runway) and waited to see what was going on - the van comes back with 3 people in it - no one has a scratch on them but the plane is totaled. I get to talking to the guy and turns out he's out of KGTU and the 172 is one of the rentals from Genesis.

    I was talking to some of the folks that were sitting outside when he was taxiing out and they all said that the plane sounded horrible. The pilot said the engine quit on him about 200' off the deck - nowhere to go but into the mesquite and brush just south of the field. Luckily he got it parked between two pretty decent sized trees.

    By the time I got back from eating some Q over at Cooper's, a couple guys from Genesis had shown up (assuming a CFI and an A&P, but didn't ask) as well as the state trooper.

    Definitely a weird day - was very happy they all walked away from that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  28. TravW

    TravW Filing Flight Plan

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    Wow! During a checkout flight with them several months ago for that 182...that is now getting overhauled, I was asked if I should continue my flight if the engine appeared to be running rough. Hmm.
     
  29. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    holy crap - they didn't total that plane they crashed? they are overhauling it??

    i didn't have any up close pictures but one of the airport guys that drove out on a tug took a few of the plane it's in final resting place and it didn't look like they could salvage it.

    EDIT - I found the thread where I posted this the day it happened.

    http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70623
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  30. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    So... that's what, 3 Genesis accidents in one thread? Would you judge an FBO on that basis or give them the benefit of the doubt? I was going to try them for the Cessna checkouts and you all gave me a pause....
     
  31. TravW

    TravW Filing Flight Plan

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    I think an extra accident slipped in somewhere...I know of only two Genesis aircraft that have been involved. There is the accident in Llano that took out C172 N9373F, and the 182RG gear up at KGTU. The flipped 177 at KGTU wasn't a Genesis plane. It had originated out of Lancaster (KLNC). I finished up my private with Genesis and went on to do complex and high performance endorsements. Everyone I've flown with there has been excellent and thorough. They have recently added another 172 and an Archer III to the flight line.
     
  32. TravW

    TravW Filing Flight Plan

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    AFAIK 172 9373F that you saw go down is totaled. The 182RG that landed gear up is getting overhauled.
     
  33. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Update. Still looking at partnerships, and, consequently, having to ponder over the question of entry cost. Specifically, how should I estimate a fair buy-in price of the partnership? On the surface, it seems no different than the purchase of an aircraft, right? Say, a fair value of the year/make/model plus cash in the partnership (engine fund and the like) devided over the number of members. Is there anything else I should factor in here?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  34. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    Hey Phillip. I'd say that's typical...that's how we did it in my case. I was buying out an existing member so he had a price in mind and we negotiated based on the value of the airplane. Our plane is setup as a LLC so each owner is essentially a shareholder with equal shares. None of us have ever shared with anyone else, that I know of, what we paid for our share but I'd assume it's all roughly the same - except perhaps for the one guy who has been in the plane for over 15 years. No idea what he paid.
     
  35. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Seems to be typical for shared ownership setups that I'm now encountering as well. I'm talking to a gentleman who is selling his share in an aircraft at GTU and based on the price he had set the aircraft value is somewhere about 30% above market... I was wondering if there were any "scarcity" considerations (182G) built into the price of a share but now think that he probably just does not want/need to sell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  36. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Could the asking price include his part of financial reserves? Some shared arrangements are setup that each member has an equal share of all assets (aircraft, hangar toys, cash reserves, etc).

    So your contact's ask might reflect more than just the aircraft. Ask for a breakdown or "how did you arrive at the number?"
     
  37. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    I did and the answer was "this is what I think it is worth and I am not negotiating" :).
     
  38. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    The seller should be able to show you the bank statement of the partnership's account.

    If the partnership doesn't have it's own bank account(s) then absent a good reason walk away.

    Another thing I ran into when I was shopping for a partnership was a four way Mooney partnership, but one 'share' was shared by two pilots. I walked away from that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  39. AustinPilot

    AustinPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Also interested in partnerships in the Austin area. Something at Lakeway (3R9) or KAUS ideally, with cross-country IFR capability and enough useful load for 4 real people. :)

    Prefer the nicer stuff (like something modern with A/C) but certainly would entertain a solid older machine like a Bonanza, M20J, etc.
     
  40. Phillip

    Phillip Pre-Flight

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    Update, I've since decided to join Chandelle, our local flying club. Meeting the board yesterday have reinforced me in that decision. The board had cast an impression of having the right mix of enthusiasm and general level-headedness (I am saying this for the benefit of the austin guys that are looking for a partnership to join). I am stoked. The search is over.