Aircraft painting

n20junkie

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Oct 21, 2005
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429
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Grand Island, NY
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Display name:
Grant Farmer
I want to strip my Cessna 150 and repaint it this winter. I already plan on replacing all of the plastic (tail tip plastics, and so forth) and completing any experior sheetmetal repairs. I was wondering how much paint, and what kind you guys recomend? Stripper? I plan on removing the tail, wings and doors. Stripping all, replacing any corroded fasteners and nutplates. Repainting, replacing door seals, and putting back together.
 
Unless you're an A&P mechanic yourself, you will need an A&P's assistance in this task, as there are certain things you need an A&P to do (like rebalancing the control surfaces before reinstalling them). In addition, aircraft paints are a bit tricker than the latex wall paint in your living room, and stripping can be dangerous as well as creating an EPA violation if you don't know what you're doing. I would suggest that you get together with an A&P with aircraft painting experience and be a trainee on this project.
 
I've painted an airplane before and can tell you that it is a LOT of work to get it right. As others have pointed out, you'll need the assistance of an A&P (or AI?) to make the airplane legal when you are finished. Beyond that, there may be local ordinances that govern that kind of work in your area. Where I live, a professional shop needs a permit. A guy painting a car or airplane in his garage or back yard doesn't.

If you take the time to do it right, it is a very rewarding project. With a C-150 sized project, a good painter would get by with 4 sprayable gallons if the scheme was to be overall white with trim stripes. Each sprayable gallon probably costs $250. Add stripper, primer, etc. and you can easily have $2k in materials invested in materials alone.

Modern catalyzed paints are nasty to work with, so check the PPE (personal protective equipment) guidelines of whatever product you select. Virtually all of them will be catalyzed paints, and the catalyist is a nasty substance.

If I was painting an everyday airplane (not a Gulfstream or even a Cirrus), I'd find the nearest Dupont or 3M auto paint store and go talk to those folks. If you like them, get them to recommend their best products for your aluminum and fiberglass substrates. It is important to pick a product that is easily supportable in your area. If you pick an exotic "airplane paint" and need reducer at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, you're screwed. On the other hand, if you use a locally supported paint system, you can just run down to the auto body store.

You need to read up on 1 vs 2 stage paints. I.E. one coat or two coat systems. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

You will need adequate facilities, which means a paint booth with good lighting and ventilation. Clean too. Do a websearch and you'll get some ideas.

You will almost certainly need a forced air breathing system. You can make one out of pool cleaner hose, a full face mask, and a bathroom fan, or you can spend $400 and buy a hobby-air. Your health is worth whatever it costs to maintain it. Remember that. Don't breath the fumes. Keep the solvents off your skin (use a tyvek suit). Be smart. Save your liver for something better.
 
I want to strip my Cessna 150 and repaint it this winter. I already plan on replacing all of the plastic (tail tip plastics, and so forth) and completing any experior sheetmetal repairs. I was wondering how much paint, and what kind you guys recomend? Stripper? I plan on removing the tail, wings and doors. Stripping all, replacing any corroded fasteners and nutplates. Repainting, replacing door seals, and putting back together.

Sounds like a plan.

This is the very best paint

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ranthanefinish.php

A 150 requires about 3 gallons of paint to cover the color coat and about 2 gallons of primer. The amounts of colors will vary with trim design.

don't forget the prep fluids, (etch and alodine)
 
I've painted an airplane before and can tell you that it is a LOT of work to get it right. As others have pointed out, you'll need the assistance of an A&P (or AI?) to make the airplane legal when you are finished. Beyond that, there may be local ordinances that govern that kind of work in your area. Where I live, a professional shop needs a permit. A guy painting a car or airplane in his garage or back yard doesn't.

If you take the time to do it right, it is a very rewarding project. With a C-150 sized project, a good painter would get by with 4 sprayable gallons if the scheme was to be overall white with trim stripes. Each sprayable gallon probably costs $250. Add stripper, primer, etc. and you can easily have $2k in materials invested in materials alone.

Modern catalyzed paints are nasty to work with, so check the PPE (personal protective equipment) guidelines of whatever product you select. Virtually all of them will be catalyzed paints, and the catalyist is a nasty substance.

If I was painting an everyday airplane (not a Gulfstream or even a Cirrus), I'd find the nearest Dupont or 3M auto paint store and go talk to those folks. If you like them, get them to recommend their best products for your aluminum and fiberglass substrates. It is important to pick a product that is easily supportable in your area. If you pick an exotic "airplane paint" and need reducer at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, you're screwed. On the other hand, if you use a locally supported paint system, you can just run down to the auto body store.

You need to read up on 1 vs 2 stage paints. I.E. one coat or two coat systems. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

You will need adequate facilities, which means a paint booth with good lighting and ventilation. Clean too. Do a websearch and you'll get some ideas.

You will almost certainly need a forced air breathing system. You can make one out of pool cleaner hose, a full face mask, and a bathroom fan, or you can spend $400 and buy a hobby-air. Your health is worth whatever it costs to maintain it. Remember that. Don't breath the fumes. Keep the solvents off your skin (use a tyvek suit). Be smart. Save your liver for something better.

I guess you have never heard of the Stewart system..

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/
 
Unless you're an A&P mechanic yourself, you will need an A&P's assistance in this task, as there are certain things you need an A&P to do (like rebalancing the control surfaces before reinstalling them). In addition, aircraft paints are a bit tricker than the latex wall paint in your living room, and stripping can be dangerous as well as creating an EPA violation if you don't know what you're doing. I would suggest that you get together with an A&P with aircraft painting experience and be a trainee on this project.

Question for you Ron, Would it seem unrealistic to strip a coat of paint off the flight control, and replace it with a new one, that it would be that far out of balance?
 
if i was facing repainting a 150 i think id just strip it and polish the aluminum. save the weight.
 
Question for you Ron, Would it seem unrealistic to strip a coat of paint off the flight control, and replace it with a new one, that it would be that far out of balance?

Any repainting/resurfacing will require control balancing and a new Aircraft Weight and balance.
 
I'm and IA so the mechanic part is covered, and will be moving the components to a automotive spray booth for the actuall application of the primer and finishes.
 
I guess you have never heard of the Stewart system..

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/

Sure I have. And I hope they are very successful. Unfortunately, that system doesn't have a long track record, so it comes with all the inherent risks for "early adopters".

I've got a friend who has painted his RV-9 with the Stewart products. It looks great. But it hasn't flown. The question is "What will it look like in 10 years?"

Personally, I'd prefer to use the proper PPE and time proven paint products. That way, I know I'll get a lifetime's use of my body and a 15 year service life out of a paint job. In 10 years (or maybe 5), I'll take a good look at aircraft that were painted with the Stewart systems, and it'll be time to re-evaluate...
 
Sure I have. And I hope they are very successful. Unfortunately, that system doesn't have a long track record, so it comes with all the inherent risks for "early adopters".

I've got a friend who has painted his RV-9 with the Stewart products. It looks great. But it hasn't flown. The question is "What will it look like in 10 years?"

Personally, I'd prefer to use the proper PPE and time proven paint products. That way, I know I'll get a lifetime's use of my body and a 15 year service life out of a paint job. In 10 years (or maybe 5), I'll take a good look at aircraft that were painted with the Stewart systems, and it'll be time to re-evaluate...

I guess 30 years isn't much of a track record..
 
Any repainting/resurfacing will require control balancing and a new Aircraft Weight and balance.

What is your refference? the Cessna 100 service manual does not say that.

Painting is in Section 20
 
I stripped and repainted a Cherokee 180 once. I'll never do that again (never), there were so many other productive things I could have been doing. I'm going to leave this job to the experts, I've got better things to do.

Kevin
 
Question for you Ron, Would it seem unrealistic to strip a coat of paint off the flight control, and replace it with a new one, that it would be that far out of balance?
You lost me in the grammar, but I believe the relevent AC requires rebalancing after repainting, although I could be wrong. In any event, given the criticality of control balance, I think you'd be less than wise not to rebalance a control surface after stripping and painting, and it take as A&P (IA not required) to sign that off.
 
Since you're an A&P, you should already know most of what's been discussed above.

As for paint choice, I prefer the polyurethane paints like AcryGlo (Sherman Williams), Imron (DuPont), and Alumigrip (ANAC). They give a long-lasting deep gloss finish, but they are a bit trickier to apply, hence the recommendation to work with someone familiar with those paints. Which one you choose makes little difference in the final result, but since they do require somewhat different handling, it's best to go with the one your paintmeister normally uses.
 
I guess 30 years isn't much of a track record..

Can you find any references that show a 30 year history on the Stewart products. Even their website discusses a "revolutionary new system", which doesn't exactly tie in with a long service history.

Here's a starting point. Stewart purchased the product line from AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) a few years ago (<5, If I recall). The relevant questions seem to be: How long did AFS offer its products before being purchased by Stewart, and are the Stewart paints identical to the old AFS paints?

I'm not knocking the Stewart products. I'm simply pointing out that the system doesn't appear to have a proven track record. If you can find data to show otherwise, I'd love to see it.
 
Yea, sorry out the grammer. I had a small accident yesterday, and mashed up 4 of my fingers pretty good. My typing is pretty bad with all the bandages and stuff.

I am familiar with auto painting. And am familiar somewhat with the basics of aircraft refinishing. I was just wondering if anyone had any "must do's" or "must not do's". Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious until after you have completed the project. I think that removing the wings will not only allow an easier stripping and painting situation, but will save my back from trying to bend over backwards to clean the underside of the wing.
 
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Yea, sorry out the grammer. I had a small accident yesterday, and mashed up 4 of my fingers pretty good. My typing is pretty bad with all the bandages and stuff.
Ouch!
I am familiar with auto painting. And am familiar somewhat with the basics of aircraft refinishing. I was just wondering if anyone had any "must do's" or "must not do's". Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious until after you have completed the project. I think that removing the wings will not only allow an easier stripping and painting situation, but will save my back from trying to bend over backwards to clean the underside of the wing.
I've never heard of disassembling the plane to that extent for painting, perhaps because of the risk of scratching up the new paint during reassembly. However, for an idea of how to work with these paints, check the manufacturers' web sites, like this one for ANAC Alumigrip: http://www.anac.com/products/DataSheets/AlumigripHS.pdf.
 
Can you find any references that show a 30 year history on the Stewart products. Even their website discusses a "revolutionary new system", which doesn't exactly tie in with a long service history.

Here's a starting point. Stewart purchased the product line from AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) a few years ago (<5, If I recall). The relevant questions seem to be: How long did AFS offer its products before being purchased by Stewart, and are the Stewart paints identical to the old AFS paints?

I'm not knocking the Stewart products. I'm simply pointing out that the system doesn't appear to have a proven track record. If you can find data to show otherwise, I'd love to see it.

Remember web sites are advertizing, and what is new is hot..... Their clipper was recovered and painted with AFS in the late 70s. I also service a maule that was completed in the 70's that looks like yesterdays paint job.

way back when, the AFS system was EXP, and needed a 337 preapproved for any other aircraft.

Here are some pictures of a 1988 Polyfiber system.
 

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Remember web sites are advertizing, and what is new is hot..... Their clipper was recovered and painted with AFS in the late 70s. I also service a maule that was completed in the 70's that looks like yesterdays paint job.

way back when, the AFS system was EXP, and needed a 337 preapproved for any other aircraft.

Here are some pictures of a 1988 Polyfiber system.

I think you're mis-remembering some dates. Looking at some information in recent publications, my best estimate is that the current paint systems are no older than 14 years. That isn't explicitly stated, but here's a quote from a 2008 Kitplanes article that you can find through google:

"Stewart noted that their technology has been around for about 14 years, and that solvents are on their way out. They can ship the materials worldwide with no hazmat or special shipping requirements. He added they hadn’t received any reports from the field about cracking or crazing on fabric aircraft."

Beyond that, how relevant is the Stewart system (primarily a fabric covering and paint system) for a guy who wants to paint an aluminum airplane? Again, using Google, I was able to find a few folks who are using these products on their experimental RV's and the like, but I didn't find any information on long term results of these products on metal aircraft.

To me, these still look like products without a lot of history in the field.
 
I think you're mis-remembering some dates. Looking at some information in recent publications, my best estimate is that the current paint systems are no older than 14 years. That isn't explicitly stated, but here's a quote from a 2008 Kitplanes article that you can find through google:

"Stewart noted that their technology has been around for about 14 years, and that solvents are on their way out. They can ship the materials worldwide with no hazmat or special shipping requirements. He added they hadn’t received any reports from the field about cracking or crazing on fabric aircraft."

Beyond that, how relevant is the Stewart system (primarily a fabric covering and paint system) for a guy who wants to paint an aluminum airplane? Again, using Google, I was able to find a few folks who are using these products on their experimental RV's and the like, but I didn't find any information on long term results of these products on metal aircraft.

To me, these still look like products without a lot of history in the field.

The stewarts have a primer, etch and cleaner for aluminum, all are water borne chemicals that wash up with soap and water. and used under their top coat.

OBTW, I can remember the dates in log books that are concerning fabric recovering.

Their top coat is a water borne chemical, it is a cross linking urathane after the water have evaporated it is the same as any other urathane, After you have allowed your gun to dry, don't try to wash it with soap and water.

THe 15 year period that you speak of must be the period after the AFS system became certified. Every thing before that was EXP, which many are still flying with no ill effects of age.

Write or call the Stewarts, ask when their clipper was re-finished.
 
Since you're an A&P, you should already know most of what's been discussed above.

That isn't always true. A&Ps don't know everything. IAs don't know everything either. I have an A&P, and a lot of times customers will come in and teach me a thing or two. The important thing about being an A&P is having an open mind, not pretending that you know more than you do, and being ready to do some research if need be. Last winter I eneded up doing several fabric projects. I hadn't done any fabric work since A&P school back in 1968. I learned a lot this winter. So anyway, I've started studying for my IA this summer, and I didn't realize how much I don't know until I started working on the IA.
 
Can you find any references that show a 30 year history on the Stewart products. Even their website discusses a "revolutionary new system", which doesn't exactly tie in with a long service history.

Here's a starting point. Stewart purchased the product line from AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems) a few years ago (<5, If I recall). The relevant questions seem to be: How long did AFS offer its products before being purchased by Stewart, and are the Stewart paints identical to the old AFS paints?

I'm not knocking the Stewart products. I'm simply pointing out that the system doesn't appear to have a proven track record. If you can find data to show otherwise, I'd love to see it.

Stewart systems passed the FAA criteria for application on certified planes with flying colors. Far easier than anything else out there. It is what I use to paint planes with. As far as the stripper goes, it is some fantastic stuff. sticks like glue and will not hurt the glass if you get it of in a reasonable amount of time.

This is how I redo a plane:

Remove all control surfaces.
Remove wings
If I am doing a restoration remove horizontal and vertical.
Spray each piece with the biodegradable stripper (it can sit over night).
I use a steam cleaner to power wash everything off. Inside and out. This is a very simple and easy way to do it. It is also possible to do it without removing anything but control surfaces.
Any thing left gets aircraft stripper or another coat of Eco strip.
Check all rivets, replace if bad.
etch
Stewart Systems primer
Stewart systems paint, This is done piece by piece because you cannot paint much at a time.
If you do not like SS screws showing you can paint them once everything is back together, Stewart Paint will lay right down on fresh paint with in 10 days.
Check the balance on controls and reinstall them on wings, horiz and vertical.
Plastics get Eco fill primer sealer then painted accent colors.
Any scratches can be retouched as well as screws or fasteners. Not really a problem as the paint is some of the toughest stuff I have worked with.
Paint your accent stripes and N numbers.
Better yet call me and I will cut your N numbers in colored vinyl as well as the stripes.
I re-weigh the plane at this point. Unless the customer does not want it weighed.

Dan
 

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Yea, sorry out the grammer. I had a small accident yesterday, and mashed up 4 of my fingers pretty good. My typing is pretty bad with all the bandages and stuff.

I am familiar with auto painting. And am familiar somewhat with the basics of aircraft refinishing. I was just wondering if anyone had any "must do's" or "must not do's". Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious until after you have completed the project. I think that removing the wings will not only allow an easier stripping and painting situation, but will save my back from trying to bend over backwards to clean the underside of the wing.

Must do: After stripping is finished, make up a solution of 5gal hot water, a half a box of baking soda, and a very small squirt of palmolive dish soap, hook the hose to hot/warm water and wash thoroughly. Use a green scrubby pad with the bucket and scrub and flush/flood with lots & lots of warm water at low pressure, open end of hose at this point. Get a soft and firm toothbrush and do all the seams well, as well as rivet heads, clean clean clean. Now take one of the cheapy electric pressure washers and blast all the seems and rivet lines. When you do this step, take the siphon hose that goes to the washer, the one that's supposed to add soap to the mix, and put it in a bottle of white vinegar.

Next add 32oz of Glacial Acetic Acid to a 5 gallon bucket of water and clean just like you did on the first cleaning with the baking soda, and this time, jub the entire surface with your bare hand as well. You should not feel any bumps, and everything should be squeeky clean feeling. Any where you feel even the slightest slipperyness, you need to work on that getting it cleaner, because slippery is the feeling of alkalinity and that will be where the paint will peal from. You get the point here, clean clean clean and fully neutralized.

One option you may look at as well is see if there is someone in your area doing CO2 blasting a.k.a. Dry Ice Blasting, it's the shizzle for stripping, especially thin gauge materials as it creates a resistance to deformation.
 
Must do: After stripping is finished, make up a solution of 5gal hot water, a half a box of baking soda, and a very small squirt of palmolive dish soap, hook the hose to hot/warm water and wash thoroughly. Use a green scrubby pad with the bucket and scrub and flush/flood with lots & lots of warm water at low pressure, open end of hose at this point. Get a soft and firm toothbrush and do all the seams well, as well as rivet heads, clean clean clean. Now take one of the cheapy electric pressure washers and blast all the seems and rivet lines. When you do this step, take the siphon hose that goes to the washer, the one that's supposed to add soap to the mix, and put it in a bottle of white vinegar.

Next add 32oz of Glacial Acetic Acid to a 5 gallon bucket of water and clean just like you did on the first cleaning with the baking soda, and this time, jub the entire surface with your bare hand as well. You should not feel any bumps, and everything should be squeeky clean feeling. Any where you feel even the slightest slipperyness, you need to work on that getting it cleaner, because slippery is the feeling of alkalinity and that will be where the paint will peal from. You get the point here, clean clean clean and fully neutralized.

One option you may look at as well is see if there is someone in your area doing CO2 blasting a.k.a. Dry Ice Blasting, it's the shizzle for stripping, especially thin gauge materials as it creates a resistance to deformation.


DO NOT FOLLOW THIS ADVICE. Acetic acid is very harmful to aluminum, and you can NEVER get it off the aircraft.

EcoEtch is probably the best precleaner I have found. NAPA Twin-etch is also good,

And NEVER EVER use a high pressure washer to remove anything from and riveted seam. All that will do is drive water thru the seam and deposit the crap it carries, (the acid that was used to remove the paint) on the interior of the aircraft and start corrosion.
 
Stewart systems passed the FAA criteria for application on certified planes with flying colors. Far easier than anything else out there. It is what I use to paint planes with. As far as the stripper goes, it is some fantastic stuff. sticks like glue and will not hurt the glass if you get it of in a reasonable amount of time.

This is how I redo a plane:

Remove all control surfaces.
Remove wings
If I am doing a restoration remove horizontal and vertical.
Spray each piece with the biodegradable stripper (it can sit over night).
I use a steam cleaner to power wash everything off. Inside and out. This is a very simple and easy way to do it. It is also possible to do it without removing anything but control surfaces.
Any thing left gets aircraft stripper or another coat of Eco strip.
Check all rivets, replace if bad.
etch
Stewart Systems primer
Stewart systems paint, This is done piece by piece because you cannot paint much at a time.
If you do not like SS screws showing you can paint them once everything is back together, Stewart Paint will lay right down on fresh paint with in 10 days.
Check the balance on controls and reinstall them on wings, horiz and vertical.
Plastics get Eco fill primer sealer then painted accent colors.
Any scratches can be retouched as well as screws or fasteners. Not really a problem as the paint is some of the toughest stuff I have worked with.
Paint your accent stripes and N numbers.
Better yet call me and I will cut your N numbers in colored vinyl as well as the stripes.
I re-weigh the plane at this point. Unless the customer does not want it weighed.

Dan
Vinyl numbers?? How yucky is that?

Make painting stencles and paint the stripes and numbers first, pull the masking while the paint is tacky, and allow to dry/cure out. next day mask off all the new paint, and paint the rest of the aircraft, pull the masking when almost cured, and allow to dry over night and buff the lines and you won't have a layer upon a layer, and you won't even feel the color change.

You can tell a cheap paint job by running your finger across the color change if you can feel the edge it ain't the best.
 
Vinyl numbers?? How yucky is that?

Make painting stencles and paint the stripes and numbers first, pull the masking while the paint is tacky, and allow to dry/cure out. next day mask off all the new paint, and paint the rest of the aircraft, pull the masking when almost cured, and allow to dry over night and buff the lines and you won't have a layer upon a layer, and you won't even feel the color change.

You can tell a cheap paint job by running your finger across the color change if you can feel the edge it ain't the best.

I don't know about Cheap, the six I had cost them $12,000.00 and you could feel those color changes. Maybe quality or preference. if you want to get real technical use a clear coat and then you really have a smooth job.

Yes that is how I did my 150. problem when you get a blead through that looks worse yet. I paint the vinyl the same color as the accent from 5 feet you cannot tell it is not paint, well because it is. The vinyl is so thin you cannot hardly feel it. If planes were supposed to be pretty they would not have rivets:no:. a lot of planes are going to vinyl graphics. Then you have to look at the cost. If you just use colored vinyl you save buying more paint. So if you want to do a $8,000.00 job or the customer wants it no problem. Most of the time they do not want to spend more than $5,000.00 and then there is the "I did my whole car for a $1,000.00."

I can cut mask's just as easy. Even shadowed, using clear top tape so it is easy to lay correct.

Dan
 
I would probably paint the accent colors, but the nice thing about vinyl graphics is that you can change the tail number easily. I think the new Cessna's are done with vinyl because of that. My flight school got a new cessna in with a tail number with 3 6's in it (ex N27666) and worries about people being scared that changed the tail number.
 
I would probably paint the accent colors, but the nice thing about vinyl graphics is that you can change the tail number easily. I think the new Cessna's are done with vinyl because of that. My flight school got a new cessna in with a tail number with 3 6's in it (ex N27666) and worries about people being scared that changed the tail number.

Cessna uses the vinal numbers because they are cheaper and don't worry EPA
 
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