Aircraft Paint Value

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by OkieFlyer, Aug 26, 2021.

  1. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    I'm thinking about selling my trusty ol' C-182 since the market is wicked crazy right now. Several of you have seen the old girl, and many of you have probably seen it without knowing it on the @SixPapaCharlie "Have I Got the Plane For You" series.



    The plane hasn't been painted since 1971, and it's in pretty rough shape. I mean it's ugly enough to make it into a JustPlaneSilly satire if that says anything. I'm wondering if painting it before selling would be a good idea. I think there are some who would be more likely to be attracted to it, and more willing to pay a little more if it was prettier. On the other hand, there are those who might think I did it to hide something, and stay away. At the very least, I'm betting that a slick paint job would attract more potential buyers to come look, and if that were the case, maybe it would sell quicker. I'd be fairly pleased if I broke even on the paint job, but sold it quicker. On the flip side, I'm sure it'll take a month or more to get it painted, so maybe there's nothing to gain from it. I really don't know if it would be worth it or not. I suppose the same question should be asked about the interior.

    What sayeth the peanut gallery?
     
  2. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You’d never get your money back on a good paint job and nobody wants a crap paint job. I wouldn’t do it. Let them paint it if / how they want it.
     
  3. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How hot IS the market? Will paint add value above its cost? How is the interior?

    if you start down that path, it is hard to know when to stop. I would sell it “as is” and be done with it.

    What do you want to replace it with? Given the market, you may not be able to come out even, so to say.
     
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  4. Jim K

    Jim K En-Route

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    I'm with salty. I don't think it will sit long even with old paint. By the time you get it into a paint shop the bull market might be over. I've heard decent shops are booked out 18 months.
     
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  5. TCABM

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    A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Who knows when the market cools off and whether that happens before you can get into a spray booth somewhere.
     
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  6. Jeff Oslick

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    If you've never been involved in painting a plane, it is a never-ending list of "while we're at it, let's do this..." Replacing slightly cracked fairings, etc. In this market, I'd just price it (relatively) aggressively to make up for the paint issues, and let it be the next owner's problem. I doubt you'd get more than half of the money you spent on paint, etc, back on the sale, and none of the time and headaches.

    There are also nearly zero paint shops in the country capable of doing a paint job anywhere close to the promised schedule.

    Jeff
     
  7. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    As hot as the market is, and since a C182 sells pretty quickly in just about any market, I'd leave it as-is. No point in adding time/expense to something that will likely sell for what you ask anyway. Unless you think you can find a sucker to pay top dollar for it with shiny new paint, I'd just leave it be.
     
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  8. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Agree with posts #2-#7. I suggest wax, polish and elbow grease as an alternative that would have a much higher return on investment.
     
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  9. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    How bout ya just park it next to the Ugmanche and that should make it look at least 10k better.














    it being the Comanche. :eek: :D
     
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  10. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Ed, even YOU look better parked next to the Ugmanche!
     
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  11. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Very true!



    Hey, wait a minute!
     
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  12. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    How crazy of a price are you asking?
     
  13. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Have brushes and rollers, no waiting.!!
     
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  14. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    1. Hot enough that my hanger neighbor sold his 1963 C-182 with steam gauges, fair interior, nice paint, and an almost new engine for $132,500 a couple weeks ago. Pretty nice bird, but by no means special. Mine is uglier inside and out, and the engine is approaching mid-time, so I don't expect a number anywhere near that, but the Cessna 172/182 market is nuts right now.

    2. Fair enough

    3. I need to move to a six seater. It's not really a matter of coming out even, as I will have to pay more for my next plane than what I get for this one. It's a matter of having a family of 5 and only having 4 seats with my current plane. I could probably find an older 310, Aztec, Twin Comanche for close to what a 182 sells for since the twin market is still fairly soft, but I don't think I'm ready in terms of upkeep or skills to move to a twin. We'll probably be looking at a Cherokee 6 or Lance to meet our needs.
     
  15. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Good point. I have gotten some ballpark quotes, but haven't gotten deep enough to discuss availability with any of the paint shops.
     
  16. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Many Months. Maybe even long enough that the market re-centers by the time it gets painted.
     
  17. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Sell now while everyone is still bat guano insane on buying things.
     
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  18. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Just price it accordingly…the only planes not selling are those that are super expensive.
     
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  19. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Good points. 1-2 months seems to be about par according to fellow pilots with recent paint jobs around here, but many of those may have been a year or two ago. Things may be different now. Haven't discussed in detail with any paint shops at this point.

    SOlid point, but that is assuming there is actually paint covering all the metal. ;)

    Not really sure where I need to be on it just yet, bud. Honestly, I'm not the kind of guy to shoot for the moon though. If you think you may really be interested, I'd be glad to visit with you privately.

    Dude, don't think I haven't thought pretty hard about shooting my own paint. I'm not afraid to do it, I just don't have a place that would allow it, and no time in my schedule for such an undertaking.



    Thanks for all the quick replies. Sounds like we're all pretty much thinking the same thing. I've leaned away from painting anyway, but the thought crossed my mind. Thought I'd just run it by all the brilliant folks on POA, and also @EdFred.
     
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  20. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    BTW, waiting list for good paint shops are 6-12 months. I was able to get in sooner only because another plane postponed their job.
     
  21. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    FWIW: from a mx point of view if I saw new paint on an older aircraft just prior to sale it would be a red flag. If I looked under the hood and the condition of the aircraft did not "warrant" a new paint job then all bets off. If this is only a cosmetic issue with your aircraft, i.e., its mechanically sound and otherwise presentable, price it as though it had new paint then negotiate down. But first get you a gallon of AeroGloss and Rejex and clean/shine the sheet out of the exterior finish. Even making the dirt shine and slick increases the value.
     
  22. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Really? I've never heard of such delays around here. I dunno, maybe the kind of shops that have websites,take credit cards, and answer the phone are backed up. I'm thinking more about the guys that you have to hear about from a buddy, who heard about them from a buddy, and you have to show up at the shop to find them, and they only take cash. That's more my speed :D
     
  23. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Yeah, everybody keeps saying that. I never said I was going to go to a "good shop." :smilewinkgrin:




    Joking. Thanks fer the input.
     
  24. Mtns2Skies

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    It was 12 months for me to get a spot in the paint shop. I'm still 4 months away. They'll have the plane for 3 months to do the work, and I was quoted 25k. So you're looking at 25k and 15 months... If you want to sell it I'm gonna go ahead and say its not worth the effort or time for you.
     
  25. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    "Polished aluminum metalwork" would sound rather impressive in an ad. ;)
     
  26. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. That's the kind of guy I am. When I see 5 hrs SMOH and brand new paint and interior, the first thing I think is this thing was probably rotting on the the ramp somewhere a month ago.

    Mine is mechanically sound, and one of the lowest time 182s you'll find. Just broke 2000 total time. It's just a little, um, dated and the paint is chipping.
     
  27. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Line Up and Wait

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    Paintball target practice at 25 feet.
     
  28. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Park it downtown and let the "street artists" paint it for free.
     
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  29. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Total time is inconsequential and low hours can work against you, higher hours means the plane has been flown and generally maintained, not sitting on the ramp corroding.
     
  30. Jim K

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    Being in a Just Plane Silly video adds 25% to the value doesn't it?

    Or is that detracts.....?
     
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  31. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    "140º of flaps ... " :D
     
  32. Craig

    Craig Line Up and Wait

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    Wash, wax, carpet shampoo, polish and a good detail job will do wonders for a sale, and I’m not talking about the 150$ detail at the carwash guy. Might cost you a grand, but should reflect a nice boost in price.
     
  33. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I am retired now but have painted Cessna's .... the actual painting is one thing .... it is the stripping to bare aluminium that is painstaking and takes time .... cannot use metal scrapers or anything abrasive ... and has to be impeccable .... not even a tiny hint of old paint around a rivet or seam .... also most control surfaces have to be removed which requires an A&P ... before I painted the main fuselage and wings I would hang all the small parts and brackets on wires and try to paint them carefully while they blow around in the wind from the paint gun .... not to mention the aluminium chemical cleaner-treatment before priming ... not to mention the high cost of high quality paints and primers .... not to mention most people also want several colors or stripes ... not to mention how hard it is to paint the undersides of wings and fuselage .... not to mention you cannot get even a drop of stripper on windows or trim .... on and on .

    I was always well paid yet after each one I said never again . People who still paint aircraft are worth every penny you pay them. Best wishes.
     
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  34. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Great feedback. I'm with you on pretty much everything you all have said.


    Do you feel the same about interior?

    What about avionics?

    Anything there that would be worth messing with pre-sale? I have all steam gauges, a panel mounted Garmin 696, no ads-b out yet, no autopilot, Narco nav/comm and transponder, and audio panel.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/HRNHqszDrsV2Wb8t8



    [​IMG]
     
  35. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I sent you a PM. I've got some friends that might be interested.
     
  36. Mtns2Skies

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    Did you see his 107 seconds to... Video? They might want to reconsider after :D:D:D
     
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  37. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    Clean it but not overly clean it, i.e., if you never cleaned inside the wings nows not the time to do it. Organize records and ensure meet 91.417. Have a friend do a real good preflight per the manual and discuss the aircraft with your mechanic for any possible weak areas with the aircraft. And once the process starts never BS any prospective buyer. If you dont know you dont know. Good luck.
     
  38. Jim K

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    I hear that Briany guy is looking for a new airplane. Maybe you can con him into buying it.

    I don't think you'll ever get any money you put in back out. MAYBE interior if you do it yourself, but I'd let the next guy make it what he wants it. If planes were sitting on the market for a long time, it might make more sense to differentiate it from the crowd with some new parts, but right now I don't think it matters. If it flies, or even kinda looks like it could fly, it's sold in hours, often even before hitting the market.

    Case in point....
     
  39. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    At best, I think you would only see a 50 percent return on what you put into it at this point. Let the buyer decide what upgrades they want to make. (Maybe that’s me, I’m trying to see what it would cost to get it where I want)
     
  40. tawood

    tawood En-Route

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    As someone who just sold, then bought, in this market, I completely disagree with posts above...you will get your money back out if you paint it. This market is insane. Clean planes, newly painted planes, and planes without squawks sell in minutes right now, for absolute top dollar. I sold my cherokee for a ridiculous price, with the buyer/plane sight unseen. Then, I bought my arrow and paid about twice what arrows were going for a year ago...and then found out the insurance companies haven't "caught up" with the current market, so getting hull value was tough. I already have been offered (twice now) 30%+ more on my arrow than I paid for it a month ago.