Aircraft Ownership Questions

StinkBug

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Dallas
Ok, I think I've gone off the deep end. I'm actually starting to look at buying a plane myself. Just got my PPL a couple months ago and hit 100hours today :goofy: I'm planning on going on to get my IR, Commercial, and CFI tickets so I figure I've got at least 150-200 more hours of paying for a rental, and that money could pay for half a plane......so now I'm trying to see if I can truly justify this.

A few questions for those of you who actually own your own piston singles, Specifically a 172 or Cherokee since those are the planes at the top of my list.

Aside from the purchase price, what other fees, taxes, etc. will I need to plan for upon purchase and going forward? Roughly how much should I expect to spend on the annual inspection, and how much do you budget for general maintenance. I plan on flying this thing quite a bit, and am considering adding it to the club I fly with. I've done 100 hours in the last 4 months myself, and looking at the planes I've been using most of them are flying between 35-65 hours a month. With that amount of use in mind I expect that the maintenance will be higher than people who only fly on sundays, but I really dont have an idea how much those guys spend on upkeep either.

Storage fees? I know this one is gonna vary a LOT with location, but I'm interested to hear what people are paying, and where they are. I'm in San Diego, so I'm sure my cost will be at the top of the pile, but it will be outside on a tie down and not in a hangar.

Anything I'm missing? any warnings? or just plain tell me I'm an idiot and I should run away now! :lol:

Thanks everyone!
 
Oh, duh. Insurance cost. That's gonna be a big one I'm sure.
 
I think ownership is the way to go. I don't have to check any schedules, pay any rental fees or have any disagreements with partners. However, this also means that I have to eat the bill every month myself. I'm sure others would agree and some would disagree.

I pay $45 a month to tie down. But if I wanted a hangar it would be $235/mo for a T-hangar, I think $175/mo for a space in a common hangar or $120ish for a space in a crappy old hangar with no doors.

I was quoted $600 for the annual; if I did most of the work myself...that which is legal for me to do myself, which in my case was most of it. That was for the AP/IA to do it all. Since they didn't do it all, I got away with it for $300 for the inspection and signatures. I don't think that is common though.

Most figure an hourly amount for maintenance and put it in a separate account. That way you are building up money towards the eventual overhaul or any other maintenance issues that may arise and, as I have learned, they definitely will.

You can go ahead and figure for the routine maintenance like oil changes and such based on hourly figures also. For example, I know that every 25 hours I will be changing the oil, checking the plugs and air filter and so on, and replacing anything that needs it. Plugs run around $25 each and I have 8. So you can see that its not the cheapest thing in the world, but not terrible.

Insurance for me runs $67/mo through AIG Aerospace. The policy allows me and any other appropriately licensed pilot to fly and be covered.

I'm not sure how much other pilots/owners put away per hour of use, but I was offered a partnership in a 172 and the other partners put away $15/hr for maintenance. Figure fuel at 8ish gallons/hr at $5/gal here. So to fly for one hour would cost me $55. So, if you were to fly say 10 hours/mo, you could safely figure about $660/mo for tie-down, fuel, insurance and maintenance. Then put your monthly payment with that and you have a rough estimate.

Just my thought process on it. Hope it helps. Good luck in the search.

And by the way, I am in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Fuel here is $4.99/gal self-serve and I'm sure the tie-down fees are much cheaper than in your area. So there might be a pretty good difference in your own estimate on this. Good luck again!
 
Add in a little extra for the first 1-2 annuals. I'm not sure how much an annual for these aircraft will be, but be ready for hidden gotchas - maybe 1-2K over the annual price to get things back into shape.

Then plan ahead for that unexpected call from your A&P. I got one a couple of weeks ago that resulted in the purchase of a "newish" prop. **IT happens.

Prepared, it is the way to go - nothin like pulling YOUR bird out of a hangar early in the AM just because the sky was clear...
 
I think ownership is the way to go. I don't have to check any schedules, pay any rental fees or have any disagreements with partners. However, this also means that I have to eat the bill every month myself. I'm sure others would agree and some would disagree.

I pay $45 a month to tie down. But if I wanted a hangar it would be $235/mo for a T-hangar, I think $175/mo for a space in a common hangar or $120ish for a space in a crappy old hangar with no doors.

I was quoted $600 for the annual; if I did most of the work myself...that which is legal for me to do myself, which in my case was most of it. That was for the AP/IA to do it all. Since they didn't do it all, I got away with it for $300 for the inspection and signatures. I don't think that is common though.

Most figure an hourly amount for maintenance and put it in a separate account. That way you are building up money towards the eventual overhaul or any other maintenance issues that may arise and, as I have learned, they definitely will.

You can go ahead and figure for the routine maintenance like oil changes and such based on hourly figures also. For example, I know that every 25 hours I will be changing the oil, checking the plugs and air filter and so on, and replacing anything that needs it. Plugs run around $25 each and I have 8. So you can see that its not the cheapest thing in the world, but not terrible.

Insurance for me runs $67/mo through AIG Aerospace. The policy allows me and any other appropriately licensed pilot to fly and be covered.

I'm not sure how much other pilots/owners put away per hour of use, but I was offered a partnership in a 172 and the other partners put away $15/hr for maintenance. Figure fuel at 8ish gallons/hr at $5/gal here. So to fly for one hour would cost me $55. So, if you were to fly say 10 hours/mo, you could safely figure about $660/mo for tie-down, fuel, insurance and maintenance. Then put your monthly payment with that and you have a rough estimate.

Just my thought process on it. Hope it helps. Good luck in the search.

And by the way, I am in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Fuel here is $4.99/gal self-serve and I'm sure the tie-down fees are much cheaper than in your area. So there might be a pretty good difference in your own estimate on this. Good luck again!

Sounds about right to me.

Being able to wrench on your own plane (under APIA supervision) helps

Being smart enough to get a GOOD prebuy helps
 
I think ownership is the way to go. I don't have to check any schedules, pay any rental fees or have any disagreements with partners. However, this also means that I have to eat the bill every month myself. I'm sure others would agree and some would disagree.

I pay $45 a month to tie down. But if I wanted a hangar it would be $235/mo for a T-hangar, I think $175/mo for a space in a common hangar or $120ish for a space in a crappy old hangar with no doors.

I was quoted $600 for the annual; if I did most of the work myself...that which is legal for me to do myself, which in my case was most of it. That was for the AP/IA to do it all. Since they didn't do it all, I got away with it for $300 for the inspection and signatures. I don't think that is common though.

Most figure an hourly amount for maintenance and put it in a separate account. That way you are building up money towards the eventual overhaul or any other maintenance issues that may arise and, as I have learned, they definitely will.

You can go ahead and figure for the routine maintenance like oil changes and such based on hourly figures also. For example, I know that every 25 hours I will be changing the oil, checking the plugs and air filter and so on, and replacing anything that needs it. Plugs run around $25 each and I have 8. So you can see that its not the cheapest thing in the world, but not terrible.

Insurance for me runs $67/mo through AIG Aerospace. The policy allows me and any other appropriately licensed pilot to fly and be covered.

I'm not sure how much other pilots/owners put away per hour of use, but I was offered a partnership in a 172 and the other partners put away $15/hr for maintenance. Figure fuel at 8ish gallons/hr at $5/gal here. So to fly for one hour would cost me $55. So, if you were to fly say 10 hours/mo, you could safely figure about $660/mo for tie-down, fuel, insurance and maintenance. Then put your monthly payment with that and you have a rough estimate.

Just my thought process on it. Hope it helps. Good luck in the search.

And by the way, I am in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Fuel here is $4.99/gal self-serve and I'm sure the tie-down fees are much cheaper than in your area. So there might be a pretty good difference in your own estimate on this. Good luck again!

These could be the lower end, as he mentioned.
In NM, increase hangar costs 50%. Tie downs are about the same.
Maybe another $100 per year in misc fees
Plan closer to $1000 for annual (NOT owner assisted) and be ready for another $1000 to fix problems found.
Gas $6-7 per gallon, depending on the FBO
 
Since you're based in CA, plan on paying sales tax on the purchase and then property tax every year you own the plane. The property tax comes to about 1% of the value of the plane.

Good luck! Once you've owned your own you'll never go back to renting.
 
WHOA! Pardner.

You said commercial ticket and C-172 (or Cherokee) in the same post. You might want to look at a complex airplane if you want to do the training in your own flying contraption.
 
Damn, going all in I see! hahah

I will definitely be paying attention to everything in this thread, I have that crazy idea to purchase after I get my certificate and get some hours under my belt.

-Brian
 
I have owned Miss Piggy over three years now and have been REALLY lucky. My annuals have been between about $650 and $850, and she has required only very minor repairs.

I own her outright, but it still works out to about $350 per month not including fuel costs. That includes insurance, annuals, hangar fee and a little pad for miscellaneous. I set enough money aside when I bought her for an engine should the time come, so that doesn't include an engine savings account. Insurance is a little higher since she's a taildragger, but that total is probably typical for my area since hangar rent is cheap around here IF you can find a hangar.

I haven't flown her this year as much as I would like, but it sure is nice to just go open the hangar, preflight and go without working around someone elses schedule. It also is nice to be the only one flying her, so that I know just exactly how she's being treated.
 
If you shoot me an email, I'll share with you a paper I wrote covering the ownership costs for just such a simple 4-seat airplane. Email only, please -- no PM's, posts, phone calls, smoke signals, or ESP thought waves, thank you.
 
I'm well aware that I wont be able to do ALL my training in a 172 or Cherokee, especially since I plan on getting an ME rating as well. However I can do a lot of it in one of those. One plane wont do everything, but these are the least expensive planes that get used the most here. I considered getting something more complex or high performance like a Bonanza or Mooney, but they cost more and the ones in our club almost never get rented so there's really no financial incentive, I'm better off renting those. Plus, as I said, I'm planning on a CFI ticket and a Cherokee or 172 is much more desirable for a CFI to teach in than a Bonanza or Mooney.

I certainly do not expect the club rental use to pay for my entire ownership, only to offset some of the expense. Any money that comes in will be going into a separate account just for the plane. Talking to one of the current owners in the club he has no problem covering expenses on the 172s he owns and then some. I'm just trying to make sure I know what I'm in for so I can prepare myself for the gotchas and the early surprises that show up before I can build up that maintenance savings account.
 
WHOA! Pardner.

You said commercial ticket and C-172 (or Cherokee) in the same post. You might want to look at a complex airplane if you want to do the training in your own flying contraption.

No, it's only 10hrs of complex, just rent or borrow, not worth buying a complex for that unless you want a complex to start with.

Also be carefull with the crazy high cost of ownership breakdowns, if you really wanted to do the math high you could make the cost per mile on your car so high that you'd never own a car.

I just fly my plane, hangar is 160, put gas in, change the oil, nip any little things in the bud, and do owner assisted annuals, sometimes I'll put insurance on the plane, sometimes I won't depending on how I feel. That's been working for me for years. I also own outright and I don't buy 7 dollar gas.

These little plane ain't that bad to own if you're not a sucker and have some common sense and mechanical sense.
 
Simplist way is to price it by how much it would be to rent it.

Complicated way is
FIXED COSTS
Hangar
Insurance
Annual

HOURLY COSTS
fuel
oil
maintenance

DEFERRED COSTS
Engine rebuild
Other long term maintenance
or
Difference between what you paid for it and what you sell it (Depreciation)

If you buy a plane for 50k and sell it for 40k the actual cost of the airplane is the difference. The 10k is called depreciation.

Some people put a "cost of money" cost in there, like what that money cost to borrow for that time period.

Maintenance and depreciation are not really accurately known ahead of time. You have to put in an estimate. Maintenance on a small plane like a Cessna 172, is about $30-$60 per hour or so. If the total comes out way lower than rental, you've left something out.
 
No, it's only 10hrs of complex, just rent or borrow, not worth buying a complex for that unless you want a complex to start with.

Also be carefull with the crazy high cost of ownership breakdowns, if you really wanted to do the math high you could make the cost per mile on your car so high that you'd never own a car.

Personally I prefer to estimate high. It's the safe way to do things. I do the same for my customers. If someone asks me to build a custom part for their Jeep I give them a time range that starts at where I think I should be and goes up to a worst case scenario. I often beat the low time and my customers are happy to save some money. Keeps them coming back, and word of mouth brings more business. If I estimate the cost of an airplane on the high side and come out ahead, that's awesome. If I estimate low and have a big money repair, I'm dead. I'm not a rich man, and cant afford to just throw money out for fun. My training is not a hobby, it's a expense towards education and work down the road. It just also happens to be fun :D

I've also dealt with a rental situation before that didn't work out so well. My mother and I partnered on a motorhome, and leased it to a rental company. The split with them was 50/50 and when we factored in depreciation (which is ridiculous on an RV) and the wear and tear, we got hosed on the deal. We pulled it out of service after 2 years and it now gets parked next to my house and used 3-4 times a year. We spent a bunch of money, and dont sell it because we'd get a tiny fraction of the purchase price back and would prefer to just keep it and use it occasionally.

We dont wanna do the same thing with an airplane. If getting a reasonable condition plane and putting it into the club isn't gonna be a financial gain over renting for the next 200 hours then I'll just rent. We're not looking to profit in any way, but knowing that I'll be spending probably $20k in the next year on rentals, it might make sense to spend $40k on a plane that will still be worth $40k at the end of that year IF the rental income covers the cost of ownership during that time. The IF is the big question.
 
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We dont wanna do the same thing with an airplane. If getting a reasonable condition plane and putting it into the club isn't gonna be a financial gain over renting for the next 200 hours then I'll just rent. We're not looking to profit in any way, but knowing that I'll be spending probably $20k in the next year on rentals, it might make sense to spend $40k on a plane that will still be worth $40k at the end of that year IF the rental income covers the cost of ownership during that time. The IF is the big question.

Just to confirm, you are talking about leasing the airplane back to someone. That changes major parts of the equation. Insurance will be significantly higher, and you may also require 100 hour inspections.

I do applaud your effort to estimate high. It isn't always possible to mitigate the risk of costly problems when owning an airplane, regardless of what some people will say. Just because one person had a low cost ownership experience doesn't mean you will.

I like to look at it from three views: what I'd spend in an ideal world, what my best guess is, and what my worst case scenario is. I obviously hope for the best, but plan for what I expect and make sure I have the resources to take care of the worst case. In the case of airplanes you are looking at, that might mean being able to swing 15k on an unexpected engine overhaul. An airworthiness directive or particularly fussy FSDO inspector can quickly escalate your bills!
 
Dallas Quote"
"but knowing that I'll be spending probably $20k in the next year on rentals"

That's is a lot of flight hours on a rental in a year for $20k
 
Just to confirm, you are talking about leasing the airplane back to someone.
In that case, here, with the author's permission, is the incomparable Jason Hegel's piece on that point.
Jason "Whirlwind" Hegel said:
Captain Jason’s Leaseback Advice:

1. Leasebacks are a business, always treat them like one. Never get emotionally attached to a leaseback airplane, it will get abused just like a rental car does, and you don't go seeking those out when you buy a used car, do you? Put leaseback aircraft in corporations, run their books separately, have a separate tax return for the aircraft each year, etc. Talk to your CPA and lawyer, make sure you understand both the legal and tax issues.

2. You can make a lot of money with a leaseback. You can lose a lot of money with a leaseback. Many of the factors of making/losing money are completely outside of your control. If your goal in a leaseback is to have someone else pay for your personal airplane, you probably are not going to be happy with the result. If your goal is to defer the cost of your own flying, get your ratings, and perhaps make some money on the side, you can do well if you pick the right FBO/flight school to do business with.

3. If you leaseback an aircraft to an honest FBO, you have a chance to do well. If you leaseback an aircraft to a crook, you have no chance at all. Get to know with whom you are doing business. Ask around the airport, talk to the other owners, etc. Be careful of any FBO that pushes you to get into this too quickly. The best will be honest and upfront about the risks and will caution you to avoid it if you have doubts. Talk to other owners at the FBO, find out how they have been treated.

4. You must run the numbers from a realistic viewpoint, remember this is a business. Take what you're paid each hour by the FBO and subtract the per hour costs such as fuel and maintenance reserves (if you don’t, that $15,000 engine is going to surprise you). That figure is your actual hourly income (the rest does not exist for this calculation) Take the monthly fixed costs and divide them by that "true" per hour income. That is the number of hours the aircraft must fly each month to break even. The monthly fixed costs must include insurance, tie-down, and the "payment", even if there is no payment on the aircraft. The cash you might pay for an aircraft has value, if you don't include it in the monthly fixed costs, you're letting the FBO use your money for free. So add in what the payment would be if you had one.

5. You're still a renter, you just rent one specific aircraft for a reduced rate, but you're still a renter and must schedule your flights along with everyone else. Do you have the right to bump paying customers? If so, how much notice must you give? If you are inclined to "bump" paying customers for your own flying very often, you're probably a poor leaseback candidate. You'll upset those customers and you'll be hurting your own income stream. Find out about renting other airplanes at the FBO for a discounted rate if your plane is down, or otherwise busy. Everything in a leaseback is negotiable, so ask!

6. The standard leaseback agreement is the basic 80/20 plan. You get 80% of the per hour rental rate, the FBO gets 20%. Out of your 80% you pay fuel, insurance, tie-down, maintenance, and the "payment" for the aircraft (again, this has nothing to do with actually having a bank loan or not, it is the monthly value of the money invested into the airplane). Some FBOs do leasebacks differently, and if you run across one of them, be really sure of what they are offering before you sign on the dotted line.

7. FBOs like leasebacks because it removes all the risk from them. They get 20% of the rental rate, yet do not have to own or maintain a fleet of airplanes (and sometimes they make money off the maintenance). You absorb all that risk. In exchange for that risk, you have the chance to make some money, and you'll be able to fly for about half the price of renting (or less).

8. The best leaseback deals are on aircraft that fly a lot of hours each month. A Cessna 172 that flies 80 hours a month will almost always make money. A Piper Arrow that flies 20 hours a month will almost always lose money. The breakeven point on most single engine airplanes is around 50 hours and the leaseback becomes really worth doing from a profit perspective at 65 hours. I know of a case where a Piper Arrow was leased to a flight school and it flew 60 hours over 8 months. The owner lost a lot of money in insurance and maintenance. I also know of a case where a Cessna 172 was leased to a flight school and it flew an average of 87.2 hours a month over a 12-month period, the owner made a fair amount of money that year.

9. Don’t put a brand new airplane on leaseback, they lose too much value the first few years and are very quickly not new anymore when on a rental line. An example is the 1999 172SP I bought. I paid $124,000 for it with a fresh engine installed. It would cost about $209,000 to buy that plane new, in its current configuration (in 2004). Since even a new plane looks used very quickly on a rental line, I saved $80,000 (or about 1/3 the price) in exchange for having 2,200 hours already on the airframe. Those hours do not affect the rental rate. There is one exception to this rule however, and that is the new 50% bonus tax deduction signed into law by President Bush. If you have a need for a $150,000 tax deduction this year, buying a brand new 172SP for $209,000 does make sense, because of the unusual tax benefits offered by the new law.

10. Only do a leaseback if you can afford to own the airplane without the leaseback. Used aircraft can be expensive the first few months you own them. Don't expect to take anything home the first six months. People who already have money seem to do well with leasebacks. Those who really cannot afford an airplane in the first place seem to do poorly. These are generalizations of course, but there is an old saw that says it takes money to make money.

11. Buy the right aircraft, the right way. You can do everything else right, but if you buy the wrong aircraft or pay too much, you'll lose every time. This doesn't mean pick a Cessna 172 over a Piper Warrior, this means pick the right Cessna 172 or Piper Warrior. Some airplanes just shouldn't be leased back. A Mooney or Bonanza are good examples. Very old airplanes often make poor leasebacks as well. The only airplane older than about 25 years I'd leaseback would be a Cessna 150. You want something reliable with a known history. Avoid the very high time and very low time airplanes. Avoid an airplane that hasn’t flown much recently. An airplane that has had 500 hours put on it in the past 10 years will have a lot of things break when the flight school puts 500 hours on it in 6 months. I’ve seen this happen to others and it happened to me with my 172N.

12. You must sometimes spend money to make money. People want to rent airplanes with nice interiors and good panels. If the per hour rental rate is equal, would you rather fly in a Cessna 172 with ARC radios and no GPS, or a full Garmin panel? The new panel and a new interior might add 20% to the price of the airplane but double your monthly profit.

13. Look over the past two years records of similar airplanes at the FBO you’re looking at doing business with. Not just the total hours flown, but how much has been spent on maintenance and how much total income there was after all costs. There is no more honest way to see what to expect than to look at the real world figures from existing aircraft on the FBOs rental line. Do not leaseback to anyone who won't show you the records on the existing airplanes and introduce you to the other aircraft owners.

14. Think long and hard about why you're doing this. Many people get into leasebacks for all the wrong reasons, make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. A leaseback can make sense for some people, it can be a disaster for others. It generally isn't a good way to go about having someone else pay for your own personal airplane, since it will wear faster and not be cared for as well as if it were your own. In addition, you're limited in what you can do with it, given that you still have to schedule it and can’t take it very far without it costing you a lot in lost income. It can however provide you with your ratings, some money, and some low cost flying if managed well.

15. To sum it up, a leaseback is often used to reduce the cost of flying, sometimes it is used to make money, sometimes it is used as a tax shelter (consult your tax advisor on this one). The months I did a lot of personal flying, I tended to break even, and have lost money a few months, but then if you consider what my flying would have cost otherwise, I came out way ahead. If you can't afford to own regardless of the leaseback income, consider that you're making a serious commitment and while it is very easy to buy a plane, it can be hard to sell one.

For the record, I had three aircraft on leaseback with two different flight schools at Addison. A 1977 Cessna 172N, a 1999 Cessna 172SP, and a 1997 Schweizer 300CB helicopter. I did well with the older 172 and the helicopter, the 172SP mostly broke even, but I did fly it about 100 hours personally without paying a dime, so it wasn’t too bad. I earned my commercial and CFI license in both airplanes and helicopters, flew almost 500 personal hours between all the aircraft, and came out $36,000 ahead at the end of the day. I sold them once I was done flight instructing, and have since bought a Piper Twin Comanche for my personal use. I considered leasing it back, but choose not to because I want it available to fly whenever I want to go, one thing that isn’t possible with a leaseback.
 
Dallas Quote"
"but knowing that I'll be spending probably $20k in the next year on rentals"

That's is a lot of flight hours on a rental in a year for $20k

Rentals around here are $100-120/hour wet from my club. As of yesterday I've flown 100hours in 4 months of flying. 200 more in the next year shouldn't be hard to do. That's $20k on the low side. Like I said, I'm having fun flying, but I'm also flying with a goal in mind, and spending a lot of time working toward that goal. I'm investigating buying a plane, not as a money making tool, but possibly as a cost reducing tool. If I spend the $20k renting at the end I have nothing (besides my ratings) If I spend $40k on a plane I'll still have a plane at the end. The question is how much more will I spend keeping the plane flying.

I had a long talk with one of the owners in the club today and he was kind enough to actually share some hard numbers with me on his 172. Broke down the rental hours, his hours, insurance (through the club), tie down fees, etc. In an average month he's not making a lot of money, but it is paying for his flight time and maintenance. Only real difference for me is that I'll be flying more than he does, which means less "profit"

I appreciate all the responses from you guys. It's all good info.
 
I had one plane on leaseback and I used that plane for my primary, instrument, commercial and cfi. I would say it worked for me; however, there is one wrinkle I got caught with is the difference between tack time and hobbs time. I did not know at the time and signed the lease for tach time. The FBO got around 20% of the flight hours hobbs without having to reimburse me. I assisted on my own annuals after I got the plane off lease back and finally sold it after the 100 hour inspections became too frequent and the plane was flying too much. I sold it to the 2nd FBO 8 years later for the same price I purchased it (I rebuilt the engine in the while it was on the 2nd lease back).
 
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Dallas,

If you plan to lease it back to the club, you should probably look at is as you just lost control of that plane. If your goal is to fly a lot in your own plane, and you are always scheduling it rather than letting club members rent it, your plane will get a reputation of never being available. A partnership might be a better option. At least the way I see things with lease backs.

-Brian
 
I've been running numbers 20 different ways on several different planes for the last couple weeks. Looking at the planes that are out there, and within my budget, I have a lot of different combinations of aircraft, and types of use to consider. Currently the option that looks best for MY use is a complex aircraft that will get used by the club far less than a Cherokee or 172. This would be more expensive to actually fly, with less return from rental use, but I'd have less scheduling conflicts and the people who did rent it wouldn't be fresh students making hard landings. The option that looks best for my wallet is a 172 that will always be rented. Downside being as you said, I wont have as much control over when I fly.

Lots of options to weigh. One being to simply buy and fly myself. Running the numbers on that comes up almost dead even per hour with my current rentals, but that doesn't include purchase price or excess maintenance.
 
Dallas and Brian are both in San Diego, you guys should partner together. There solved.
 
Personally, I keep looking at purchasing and if I exclude purchase cost it all looks wonderful. However I'd have to take out a loan, so I have to take that into account and then I can't afford anything and then I go back to renting for way too much and then the cycle repeats a year or 2 later.
 
Figure it like this, it's going to cost you about the same as rental in your area, maybe more depending on hangar issues and costs.
 
I agree with B17Rex. I have been on both sides of the leaseback (I have worked for FBOs and clubs hunting down leases and I've leased my plane to a club). If you don't want to lose your shirt in a leaseback, you need to treat it as a business. That means it's NOT your plane. Your goal is to reign in the maintenance and other issues so that the plane is AVAILABLE TO RENT. Planes that are unavailable regularly either because they are in for maintenance or because the owner blocks out use of them tend to get IGNORED the rest of the time by renters who'll go somewhere else for one they can rent when they want.

If you are looking for leaseback as a way to defray personal use costs you're going to be unhappy. I made that mistake as well.
 
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