aircraft checkout

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The purpose of this flight was aircraft checkout prior to renting an aircraft for local flight.

Assigned a CFI, us two were to fly a PA-28-160. The CFI said he had performed a pre-flight check (performed prior to my arrival at the aircraft). He was noticeably impatient with me as I confirmed fuel and engine oil capacity. I also pointed out cracks in the wing skins extending past the stop drilled holes surrounding both mains. He sighed as he had to get on his knees to observe what I pointed out. Then, to address the nose wheel strut, I pronounced it as over extended. The CFI said that is normal but I was not buying it. I stood on the nose wheel as I pulled down with my hands on the prop. The nose strut did collapse but not enough to my liking. The CFI repeated it is fine.

We taxied out. I had a printed taxi diagram for this unfamiliar Class C airport. The CFI kept low talking a running dialog as we taxied. I could barely hear him, he sounded breathless and he placed the emphasis on the wrong syllables. Then he said don't use the aircraft tail number, instead use 'this' (made up call sign). Then he said he would handle all radio calls on the ground. I noticed he used different call signs while with GND. When I questioned that he said he likes to 'mess with them', to keep them on their toes.

Run up complete we start the take off roll. He shouts I am not applying enough back pressure on the controls. Against my thinking I pull back on the yoke and for the first time ever I scraped the tail skid. We abort and taxi back to the ramp. MX check is good but now I insist the nose strut be corrected to the correct PSI. The A&P does make the adjustment and I do physically inspect and am satisfied. Engine start up and taxi and the nose wheel seems to operate as designed, no more problem.

Call to CD again and CFI is talking, talking over my radio calls. He keeps changing his mind about initial heading and altitude while I am talking to CD. Finally squared away we take off. Turn left, no, right, no further right, no, too far, more to the left, now right a bit more, we finally get to the 'correct' heading to the practice area. He wants a climb to 3,800 agl. I query why so high and he says, "in case something happens". Whatever.


Steep turns, slow flight, pwr on/pwr off stalls, turning stalls...he says take so and so heading to go to non-towered field to practice landings. 30 nm away. Turn left a bit, he says. No, bit more left. No, too far left...do you see the airport? No, I don't see the airport. He says he sees the airport, it's right on the nose. 2 minutes later he says turn a lot more to the left. (He never refers to compass points or compass degrees) OK!, turn to the right...no, more to the right. Do you see it? Yes, I see it. Well, turn to the left because remember we are entering on the 45. Don't ever enter on base, he says.

After 1st approach to landing he said I was pushing and pulling on yoke that I am causing PIO. Without warning he takes the controls and goes around. 2nd and third approach are fine except he disagrees with my wind correction angle. Not yelling but continually harping that I am drifting too far upwind, now downwind, now upwind, etc. Between landings he was saying I turned to cross too early/not soon enough or my downwind was creeping too close to the rwy.

2.2 on the hobbs and he said come back tomorrow to finish up the aircraft checkout for a stupid Cherokee that I have over 400 hours in. Of course I didn't return. And that CFI, it seemed he kept adding to his personal story as we went along. At the end he said he has over 6,000 hours flying 135 and 121. I just wonder how many hours as a CFI. Friggin jerk...over $355 for a stupid checkout in a 1968 Cherokee with upgraded RAM 160.
 
The purpose of this flight was aircraft checkout prior to renting an aircraft for local flight.

Assigned a CFI, us two were to fly a PA-28-160. The CFI said he had performed a pre-flight check (performed prior to my arrival at the aircraft). He was noticeably impatient with me as I confirmed fuel and engine oil capacity. I also pointed out cracks in the wing skins extending past the stop drilled holes surrounding both mains. He sighed as he had to get on his knees to observe what I pointed out. Then, to address the nose wheel strut, I pronounced it as over extended. The CFI said that is normal but I was not buying it. I stood on the nose wheel as I pulled down with my hands on the prop. The nose strut did collapse but not enough to my liking. The CFI repeated it is fine.

We taxied out. I had a printed taxi diagram for this unfamiliar Class C airport. The CFI kept low talking a running dialog as we taxied. I could barely hear him, he sounded breathless and he placed the emphasis on the wrong syllables. Then he said don't use the aircraft tail number, instead use 'this' (made up call sign). Then he said he would handle all radio calls on the ground. I noticed he used different call signs while with GND. When I questioned that he said he likes to 'mess with them', to keep them on their toes.

Run up complete we start the take off roll. He shouts I am not applying enough back pressure on the controls. Against my thinking I pull back on the yoke and for the first time ever I scraped the tail skid. We abort and taxi back to the ramp. MX check is good but now I insist the nose strut be corrected to the correct PSI. The A&P does make the adjustment and I do physically inspect and am satisfied. Engine start up and taxi and the nose wheel seems to operate as designed, no more problem.

Call to CD again and CFI is talking, talking over my radio calls. He keeps changing his mind about initial heading and altitude while I am talking to CD. Finally squared away we take off. Turn left, no, right, no further right, no, too far, more to the left, now right a bit more, we finally get to the 'correct' heading to the practice area. He wants a climb to 3,800 agl. I query why so high and he says, "in case something happens". Whatever.


Steep turns, slow flight, pwr on/pwr off stalls, turning stalls...he says take so and so heading to go to non-towered field to practice landings. 30 nm away. Turn left a bit, he says. No, bit more left. No, too far left...do you see the airport? No, I don't see the airport. He says he sees the airport, it's right on the nose. 2 minutes later he says turn a lot more to the left. (He never refers to compass points or compass degrees) OK!, turn to the right...no, more to the right. Do you see it? Yes, I see it. Well, turn to the left because remember we are entering on the 45. Don't ever enter on base, he says.

After 1st approach to landing he said I was pushing and pulling on yoke that I am causing PIO. Without warning he takes the controls and goes around. 2nd and third approach are fine except he disagrees with my wind correction angle. Not yelling but continually harping that I am drifting too far upwind, now downwind, now upwind, etc. Between landings he was saying I turned to cross too early/not soon enough or my downwind was creeping too close to the rwy.

2.2 on the hobbs and he said come back tomorrow to finish up the aircraft checkout for a stupid Cherokee that I have over 400 hours in. Of course I didn't return. And that CFI, it seemed he kept adding to his personal story as we went along. At the end he said he has over 6,000 hours flying 135 and 121. I just wonder how many hours as a CFI. Friggin jerk...over $355 for a stupid checkout in a 1968 Cherokee with upgraded RAM 160.

I made bone headed mistakes because I let him mentally crowd me. F'rinstance, I blurted out Frank when I meant Foxtrot when telling TWR I had the current ATIS. Sure, I had been talking to law enforcement that week but c'mon. Anyway, I let that CFI get into my head.
 
Ouch.

We all know flight time is directly related to skill. I'd leave a bad review online, if they have a site, or some other note of dissatisfaction.
 
Even though he stated he had 6,000 hours he got on me for starting the take off roll before the rwy end..said you can't use this portion of the rwy for take off. He also had not seen a weather balloon even though he said he had been at the Charlie airport for 10 yrs. Or that one cannot back taxi at a Charlie even though that is exactly what TWR told me to do and I confirmed. Sorry it seems I am doing on this asshat but I am still trying to figure out what I could have learned from this..that is, other than deciding to never again use that so-called CFI.
 
Ouch.

We all know flight time is directly related to skill. I'd leave a bad review online, if they have a site, or some other note of dissatisfaction.

I expected one of two things. Either the business calls me or they don't. If they do, I would assume they care. If they don't, I would assume they do not care.


In today's economic climate it is dangerous for a business to not care. They did not call me. I have resisted my urges to be proactive in informing them why I decided not to return. Eternally hopeful I would think they would care. Then again, I realize that's just me and I would be projecting onto them. KABQ if anyone cares to know.
 
The pre-flight ground briefing should have been my first clue. CFI said I was there for flight review. I corrected him by saying it is not flight review, it is aircraft checkout. He said it makes no difference, it is the same.

Then he said, I kid you not, that he didn't know they HP of a PA-28-160.

I should have walked out right then and there. My gut was telling me to walk away. But I was focused on the checkout so I could take some friends on a round robin flight of their area. New Mexico really is beautiful and I was driven to share the joy of flight with ground pounders. I tell ya, the crap I put up with for civilians. har har
 
Sounds like this person is not deserving of having a flight instructor certificate. Consider sending a letter to the local FSDO.
 
There are a lot of asshat CFI's like this out there. I've had to deal with a couple like this myself and I don't even have my PPL yet (still training). There is one guy at my school who is exactly like this. Takes the controls away from me for no reason and everything, he has even slapped me before. I think some of these CFI's hate what they're doing and can't get a real job because they suck as pilots as well as human beings and yet they're "teachers"? Sorry to hear about your experience.
 
The pre-flight ground briefing should have been my first clue. CFI said I was there for flight review. I corrected him by saying it is not flight review, it is aircraft checkout. He said it makes no difference, it is the same.

Assuming you didn't make the appointment directly with him I wouldn't be so concerned about that. If you're doing an area familiarization training along with the check-out, it's quite possible you'll need to spend an hour on the ground portion. It does sound like there's not a clear set of expectations between you and the instructor.


Then he said, I kid you not, that he didn't know they HP of a PA-28-160.

I should have walked out right then and there. My gut was telling me to walk away. But I was focused on the checkout so I could take some friends on a round robin flight of their area. New Mexico really is beautiful and I was driven to share the joy of flight with ground pounders. I tell ya, the crap I put up with for civilians. har har

Perhap's he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. My experience, having been checked out scores of times over the years, is that you'll get some dud CFIs occasionally. Mostly you just try to steer in the skid, do what they say provided they're not nudging you into doing something unsafe, and move on.

Basically you can choose to do business with them or not. Sometimes you hold you nose and finish the checkout later because...you need the checkout.

I remember I once had a CFI for a checkout who would not take her hands off the controls...as in literally she rested her hands on the controls. Then I had the CFI who just wouldn't stop talking (even while I was interacting with ATC)...sigh.
 
Sounds like this person is not deserving of having a flight instructor certificate. Consider sending a letter to the local FSDO.

He may not be a great CFI but I haven't heard anything that is worthy of reporting to the FSDO. Besides, if the OP can prove that the aircraft is unairworthy, then he has made proof that he willingly flew an unairworthy airplane, along with the CFI.
 
Think the lesson to learn here is go with your instincts. Ask other people on this board for a suggestion for a CFI if you're going to an unfamiliar airport. I have become pretty picky on who I fly with, I try to get a judgement call while on the ground and decide if it's worthy to go with them. I even turned down an ATP rated pilot to fly with since I didn't feel comfortable. Hours logged are just that, hours logged. 50 hours in the pattern means almost nothing. 50 hours flying long XC means alot more.
 
Do you get the idea that maybe they stuck the crazy CFI with the rental checkout?

Maybe this was being filmed for a new reality show. Did you sign any disclosures and did you read them carefully?? :goofy:
 
I'm trying to think of something you could have done to really mess with his head like pull it up and roll it one time, or do a hammerhead and watch the look on his face.

Something safe, but crazy.

Because it sounds like he was not going to pass you anyway, so why not have some fun?
 
I've had many checkouts, but not with that kind of CFI. What ends up happening with me when I check out a new-to-me airplane with a new-to-me CFI: that checkout flight is as much a learning experience with the CFI style as it is with the airplane and sometimes that has a larger affect than you think.

I haven't yet called off a checkout flight during the preflight phase, but if things had gone that way for me, I probably would have said, "Look, things just don't feel right today. I'm going to reschedule." I've HAVE done that for lessons, but not yet for a checkout with a CFI I don't know.
 
The longer the check out the more money he makes. Must have been a slow week for him.
 
During the ground session, was who was filling the role as PIC firmly established?

One of the things I appreciated about Ron Levy was that he clearly established who was filling what role during our training, and who would be doing what comms based on the situation at the moment. Hindsight and this thread has me really appreciating that.
 
Using fake N-numbers to mess with ATC?

I didn't assume fake N numbers

Then he said don't use the aircraft tail number, instead use 'this' (made up call sign). Then he said he would handle all radio calls on the ground. I noticed he used different call signs while with GND. When I questioned that he said he likes to 'mess with them', to keep them on their toes.

Some flight schools around have agreements with local ATC for callsigns like "Flightschool 1" and "Flightschool 2" or whatever name they agree on. I assumed that's what the CFI was doing. But yeah, if he was using fake tail numbers, yeah, that's a problem.
 
funny how there are notably less fictional threads on boards where people are required to use their real name
 
You should have bailed out when you returned after scraping the tail. As soon as you see the first sign of behavior like this guy, turn around walk away.
 
funny how there are notably less fictional threads on boards where people are required to use their real name

Using a real name or anonymous handle has nothing to do with it. There's been enough "fiction" posted on PoA by several using their real names. :rolleyes:
 
During the ground session, was who was filling the role as PIC firmly established?

One of the things I appreciated about Ron Levy was that he clearly established who was filling what role during our training, and who would be doing what comms based on the situation at the moment. Hindsight and this thread has me really appreciating that.

For many yrs I insist my pre-flight brief directly addresses establishing exactly who is PIC including which tasks are to be handled by who and in what condition (expected or unexpected) or phase of flight.
 
Some flight schools around have agreements with local ATC for callsigns like "Flightschool 1" and "Flightschool 2" or whatever name they agree on.

This FBO does use this practice. However, the CFI was using different call signs for each radio transmission. He actually said he likes messing with them (ATC).
 
funny how there are notably less fictional threads on boards where people are required to use their real name

I'm the OP. Do you think any part of this is a fictional account? I have not exaggerated or embellished any part of it. In fact, I have withheld several other things which would seem quite outlandish to most reasonable persons.
 
For example, while taxiing in to parking I saw a weather balloon being launched only a few hundred feet in front of us. I called his attention to it. In the ensuing discussion he revealed he didn't know the purpose of the weather balloon nor the time of issue or valid periods for the observations gotten from the balloon.

Ok, to be a pilot it's not required to know about weather balloons. Perhaps the pilot doesn't need to be familiar with NOAA weather products and services. But shouldn't that be expected of a CFI let alone a CFI who claims to have 6,000 hours and has flown 135 and 121?

Same thing with the aircraft. How much should a pilot know of his aircraft? Is it okay that this CFI didn't know a gas is used to charge the nose wheel strut? There is more to it and none of these things are huge by themselves. But the cumulative effect is tremendous lack of trust and deep questioning of his knowledge base...isn't a CFI primarily purposed with transference of knowledge?
 
I'm the OP. Do you think any part of this is a fictional account? I have not exaggerated or embellished any part of it. In fact, I have withheld several other things which would seem quite outlandish to most reasonable persons.
i just think it's childish to tell stories anonymously, especially regarding pretty mundane and inconsequential things like playing with airplanes
 
In the ensuing discussion he revealed he didn't know the purpose of the weather balloon nor the time of issue or valid periods for the observations gotten from the balloon.

I consider that trivia.

The things that concern me are the call sign issue and the part where he said he did your preflight for you (did he?).
 
So, I'm giving this guy an airplane checkout today. Right off the bat he starts nitpicking the plane. We finally get going and he's so ham fisted, he drags the tail down the runway on the first takeoff! It's so bad, we taxi back to have the mechanics look at it. Everything checks out, so we go out and do some air work, which is ok. Then when I ask him to fly to a nearby airport, he can't even find it without my help. The kicker is, he's shocked that I won't let him rent the airplane without some additional training.


Ok, I wasn't the instructor involved. I'm not disputing your description of the events. Just pointing out how easy it to post a one side of the story when the other party isn't able to defend himself.
 
So, I'm giving this guy an airplane checkout today. Right off the bat he starts nitpicking the plane. We finally get going and he's so ham fisted, he drags the tail down the runway on the first takeoff! It's so bad, we taxi back to have the mechanics look at it. Everything checks out, so we go out and do some air work, which is ok. Then when I ask him to fly to a nearby airport, he can't even find it without my help. The kicker is, he's shocked that I won't let him rent the airplane without some additional training.


Ok, I wasn't the instructor involved. I'm not disputing your description of the events. Just pointing out how easy it to post a one side of the story when the other party isn't able to defend himself.

Good point.
 
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