Affordable/Obtainable Like New Cessna A/C

I don't want any "polished" glass. All that does is introduce distortion.

This is a nice plan, but it will never fly. But, it is a nice daydream.
 
wabower said:
How many announcements of these "legend" or "renaissance" projects have we seen over the years? How many have worked?
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The Reniassance Commanders did pretty well, BUT they aren't built anymore and they are kind of a niche market. They added dash -10 engines to them as well, so it was a performance increase.:D Doing real performance upgrades will sell with 182's the Katami conversion is pretty expensive, but I think it's all performance related. A ground up restored/ updated 182L will still perform exactly like a 182L.:dunno: I think a buyer for a 50 year old 182 is looking at 50 year old 182's because he can't afford a 25 year old 182. ;)
The Nextent or whatever program for the Beech Jet is a prime example of marketing people thinking a business person will pay $2+ million dollars for a 25 year old jet. Maybe a few will, but I am betting very few will choose a 1980 model airframe over a 2005 model at the same price, but maybe that's just me?? :D
 
Ghery said:
And what you don't see in this post is the quality of the work Tom puts into it. That C-170 will look better than new when he is finished.
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Ya-but, here's the difference from what the OP is thinking. If we look at the market for the 170, from the bottom to the top of flyable airplanes, the delta in price is going to be about $25-30k unless avionics goes overboard. From the tattiest 170 at $20k to the absolute cream of the crop like Tom will do at $45-50k all that leaves is a 30k delta. That is basically the price of materials for engine, brakes, instruments, wiring, upholstery, etc and allows nothing for the labor.

The OP sees this as some kind of profit center where he can justify $20-40/hr for his labor and the sub-labor. Like I said before, you have to start with a demo before you can rebuild so you're already underwater on labor cause you tear down before you build up. A double whammy.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see top notch planes out there, but as we all know the labor and even some of the material improvements in planes is never recoverable on sale. If Tom ever sells his plane at the top of the market, the buyer will be getting a heck of a deal on a plane that's been loved and attended to with the utmost care. But - it's not worth anything in terms of financial compensation.
 
under 100K for a like new 182 would be right up my alley. I'd love to see if you guys can pull that off and still make money.
 
JasonM said:
under 100K for a like new 182 would be right up my alley. I'd love to see if you guys can pull that off and still make money.
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Start with a donated corrosion free airframe with a fresh reman engine, watch your costs on the upgrades and you can pull it off! :yes::yes:
 
AggieMike88 said:
OOC, what does it cost to build a well fitted RV10?
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Approximately $165K for a standard RV-10 with everything new. 2200 hrs of labor depending on your skills. Add money/time/weight for insulation, plastic, leather, overhead console, air conditioning, upgraded or modified this or that. It will still be under $225K, but no longer a true four-place.
 
Ghery said:
And what you don't see in this post is the quality of the work Tom puts into it. That C-170 will look better than new when he is finished.
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Thanks Ghery, but every one must know you don't make money in selling, you make money buying.

Remember I only paid 5k for the project, it was a very straight, low time barn find and worthy of a restoration.

You can't pay market prices going in and expect to make money getting market going out.
 
N747JB said:
Start with a donated corrosion free airframe with a fresh reman engine, watch your costs on the upgrades and you can pull it off!
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I doubt it, simply because the aircraft buyers will consider the market price, and not the actual value of the individual aircraft.
 
docmirror said:
Ya-but, here's the difference from what the OP is thinking. If we look at the market for the 170,
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Thinking in that manner, you will never buy the best aircraft of the type.
 
docmirror said:
If Tom ever sells his plane at the top of the market, the buyer will be getting a heck of a deal on a plane that's been loved and attended to with the utmost care. But - it's not worth anything in terms of financial compensation.
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They will not get any "DEAL" they will pay what the aircraft is worth.

How much value is added to any aircraft that will be very low maintenance for the first 500 hours. That's 7-10 years for the average flyer.
 
Hello Gentlemen,

Hope all is well with everyone.

So, was going to ask if anyone has seen the AvWeb video about the 1996 Redhawk, until I saw that it had already been mentioned.

Looks like they did a pretty good job with it and we really like that T-handle throttle quadrant, (of course, Lol!:), but feel that they should have stayed with away from the FADEC for Flight Training purposes.

What they have done with the Panel, in reference to Glass, far exceeds anything we have in mind btw, but sure it will work out fine for them.

More up-dates on what we've been learning soon to come.

Thank-you all again very much for your valuable in-put!

Happy Landings!:)
 
O.k., here's where we are at this point.

The C-182 must be a 1963 minimum year and have the following:

-NO MORE THAN 125-HOURS SMOH, BY REPUTABLE SHOP.

-PROP IN EXCELLENT SHAPE.

-NO MORE THAN 3500-3800 TT ON AIRFRAME and POWER-PLANT.

-NON-COASTAL/ALMOST ALWAYS HANGERED.

-NO DAMAGE HISTORY.

-ALL ADs COMPLIED WITH.

-WHEEL PANTS WOULD BE VERY NICE, BUT NOT A MUST.

There's more, I'm sure, but this will do for now.

There will be no Power-Plant replacement and/or Factory Reman, if the one that fits the above parameters are met.

The Power-Plant will will be clean in every aspect!

New ventilation system that we want to install will be the AeroVent system, looks very nice/modern and is quite functional-

Seats will be recovered in a fabric/leather material, using Memory Foam materials for added comfort-

If need be, a Push Button Engine Start or Key Ignition System-

Possibly a Digital Engine Monitoring System-

Newer/Safer Seat-Belts-

Possibly a removable, Panel Mounted Garmin 796-

Sound/Vibration Dampening to be light-weight-

If the Glass is not a 9-10 when purchased, then the Glass must be replaced-

There must be NO visible wear/tear on any part of the Interior, especially the Panel; to include control knobs/bugs, nuts, screws, bolts, plastic, carpet, fabric, cables, etc. Again, will Replace, Powder Coat and/or Paint all that needs be. Also, NO dated looking Gauges, i.e., Fuel Indicators-

Wing-Tips from Knots2U, with built-in Landing-lights/Strobes/Nav Lights, as this will also add a sense of modernization, marginal performance and safety-

No worn/cracked exterior Fairings, Tips and Fins-

Vortex Generators-

Refinished and/or new Wheel-Pants from Knots2U-

New Exterior Paint, with modern Decal scheme-

Rosin Visors-

New/Modern (not refurbished) C-182 Ram Horn style Yokes-

New Door/Window Seals-

Add (1) of several optional, Entry Level Glass Instruments, in addition to 3 or 4 of the primary Analog Instruments-

Have (1) I-Pad w/Articulating Control Mount on left side of the Panel with ForeFlight and possibly WingsX pre-installed and 1-year pre-paid subscription, possibly the newest/latest iLevil.

New Push/Pull Control Levers-

(1) pair of either Bode or Light-Speed Head-Sets-

There's possibly more or less, but not much.

Bird is to be completely stripped down to the bone, cleaned, corrosion proofed and insulated.

As far as the T-handle Throttle and Cowling goes, we are willing to wait for now and feel that we can still deliver an absolutely safe, reliable, better performing, modern and beautiful A/C at the right price and feel that we can create a Trainer "Magnet" as well in a C-150/152 or possibly even a C-172.

To deliver just (1) of these a year, making ownership of a like-new, beautiful, modern, reliable and, better performing Cessna to a Pilot that simply cannot obtain an actual new/newer one, would be very gratifying for us, especially if it helps to retain more GA Pilots and/or attract more Pilots to the GA Community!:)

More up-dates to come as we learn more.

Thank-you all again so very much!:)

Happy/Safe Landings!
 
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O.k., we may have finally found a candidate A/C.

She's meets all of our parameters and then some, except she hasn't any wheel pants and she is "coastal" based , BUT, has always been kept in hanger.




1966 Model C-182:

Absolutely zero corrosion-

No damage history-

Only 3390-TT on A/F-

Only 175-hours on NEW O-470R that is rated for 230-H.P.-

Only 175-hours on new 2-blade McCauley-

All original books/logs

Some newer instruments-

Of course a pre-buy inspection will be performed by my very close friend "Sal" (A&P/IA) to insure that she is a solid/corrosion free and safe A/C.

p.s. in an effort to really create a "modernized"/like-new C-182, we've decided to add the Alpha Systems Panel mounted, mechanical AoA (Angle of Attack) indicator. We too want to do all that we can to make the A/C a much safer one as well, short of a BRS.

Thank-you:)
 
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Good luck, Sabraviation. I hope this works out to meet our expectations.
 
Since the goal was to add all this to an aircraft under a $100K budget, are we going to get ongoing progress with the numbers? If so let's start with the subject aircraft, pictures, price, etc.
 
somorris said:
Good luck, Sabraviation. I hope this works out to meet our expectations.
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As do we!:)

A lot of bargaining on the phone going on here lately and we (my Wife), has already done a tremendous job in keeping the initial investment/cost down to bare minimums.

Example:

http://youtu.be/irgVCLd0rNA

Saving $300.00!

A lot of our time on this will be spent negotiating discounts, period.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Since the goal was to add all this to an aircraft under a $100K budget, are we going to get ongoing progress with the numbers? If so let's start with the subject aircraft, pictures, price, etc.
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As an example of our efforts to keep the initial investment on all of the up-grades to a bare minimum, I decided to show an example in the $2600.00 will pay for the new radio ($2995.00 retail), but feel that sharing everything will compromise our effort to make a reasonable profit.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks!:)

p.s. There will be a very detailed video diary of our efforts.
 
I think that you have a wonderful idea, but I also think that your business will soon discover that if they will pay a hundred thousand for an airplane, they will also pay a hundred and twenty five thousand, and so on.

Once your business becomes established and your paying employees and the related taxes, I have a hunch your benevolence will diminish over time.

It is a great way to get a business started, offer a great product at a great price.

-John
 
sabraviation said:
As an example of our efforts to keep the initial investment on all of the up-grades to a bare minimum, I decided to show an example in the $2600.00 will pay for the new radio ($2995.00 retail), but feel that sharing everything will compromise our effort to make a reasonable profit.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks!:)

p.s. There will be a very detailed video diary of our efforts.
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This is sounding like one of those deals where you look at a used car and someone wants to tell you how much time they've spent scotchguarding the carpet and how many times they've hand washed it. Then when they say they want $20K for it and you respond, "but it's a 98' Corolla?". Everything is worth what it's worth, whether you make money or lose money as the seller is irrelevant to the buyer.

Please don't bet your families future with a business model that requires you sell above the market. That's what most of us were trying to warn you about. Otherwise, not much else to say, best of luck with your endeavor.
 
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