Aeroshell anti-wear additives vs Camguard

RyanB

Super Administrator
Management Council Member
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
16,258
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Display Name

Display name:
Ryan
Yeah, so what’s the difference between the two, really?

Aeroshell touts ‘ashless anti-wear additive package provides exceptional wear protection for camshafts and lifters and other wearing surfaces’ and comes pre-blended within the oil.

Camguard says the product ‘Fights Rust & Corrosion, Reduces Cam & Lifter Wear, Inhibits Engine Deposits & Conditions Engine Seals’

Is one better than the other? Marketing gimmicks? What’s the scoop?
 
No different, same chemical additive, from my prior research and face-to-face discussion with one of the Shell researchers/lecturers at Airventure 2017.
 
Camguard has test results on their website. Lab test using ASTM standards are pretty trustworthy. The interesting test is the bearing pressure test. The winner is x/C with Camguard. For corrosion the Aeroshell W oils have a slight advantage. When I talked to the Camguard inventor I asked what oil he used. X/C with Camguard. Best bang for the buck.

I've been using X/C for over 20 years. Why? An Aeroshell guy told me it would make my oil problems go away. Slipping starter adaptor, blow-by, oil seeps at the case seam. He was right, too.
 
Aeroshell includes the Lycoming additive LW16702, which is required by airworthiness directive for certain engines, most notably for O-320-H2AD used in 172N models among others.

Cam Guard does not have the specific additive and cannot satisfy the AD by itself.


In a nutshell, Mike Busch isn't much of a fan of Aeroshell and loves Cam Guard. Catch the video if you are interested in the arguments he makes. Unfortunately for me, I have a 172N and have to use Aeroshell (unless I want to shell out $14 a quart for Phillip's oil plus the LW16702). My IA loves Aeroshell and says engines that run Aeroshell and are torn down for an overhaul are, in her words, "squeaky clean"

Cam Guard is great for engines that sit idle for a week or more at a time. It keeps a film of oil on parts for longer, thus reducing wear on startup. I have 4 partners in my plane, so it generally stays well used, except in winter. At which point, we "invest" in a bottle of Cam Guard. Cheap insurance.
 
Aeroshell and Phillips Victory oils contain the Lycoming required anti-wear additive. Camguard is an anti-corrosion additive for engines that sit. Different additives for different purposes.
 
Straight from the horse's mouth, Ed Kolin:
Camguard can be thought of conceptually as the additive package I designed for Exxon. After I left Exxon, Greg Merrell from Aircraft Specialties asked me if I could develop an additive supplement with the same performance characteristics as those in what I done for Exxon. It took a year to reformulate what is now Camguard. It is substantially better than what I did for the Elite and it does not share any ingredients for legal reasons.

Because Exxon decided to copy the Aeroshell 15W-50, a obvious opportunity opened up before me.

Camguard contains 25 times the concentration of rust inhibitor(s) as Aeroshell 15W-50 or Elite. In Exxon's own ASTM 1748 Humidity cabinet corrosion testing Elite only demonstrates 4+ 2 days while the Aeroshell measures 2+ 1.5 days. Exxon claims Elite provides twice the protection as the Aeroshell. Camguard provides 18+9 days and while directionality is indicated, the ASTM1748 test method repeatability is horrible, which is why I do not use it.

=================
Camguard does not contain phosphate esters such as TCP. Phosphate esters hydrolyze (decompose in the presence of heat, metal and water, such as found in a crankcase) to form oil soluble phosphoric acid derivatives, which attacks copper and silicone seals (seal weeping).

Lycoming utilized TCP (now butylated triphenyl phosphate {bTPP}) in an effort to shift the liability for their scuffing/spalling cam/lifter problem to consumers. The problem is that "dry" scuffing is not the problem, corrosive pitting through the carburized hardened cam surface is. Rust on hardened surfaces such as cams and lifters is not uniform as it is on mild steel, it forms deep pits. Pitting lead to stress risers that leads to spalling failure.

With the scuffing AD and phosphate ester use so prevalent as it is, there should not be a single valve train failure, but I have not seen a decrease in the incidence of spalling failures in ten years.

=============
Camguard is not accepted for use in turbcharged aircraft engines. We designed a certification plan with the FAA but after submitting our data after 3 years (including turbocharges), which showed the best results on record our acceptance came without turbocharger approval and we were shocked. It appears some FAA people felt they should have been consulted.

Though it is not accepted for use in turbocharged engines fully one third of our sales are to people with turbocharged aircraft.

=============
I was directly involved in the disassembly of the Aeroshell 15W-50. I was in the room when we were informed that Elite would be an "advanced copy" (cheaper) of the Aeroshell 15W-50 and not a step out technology product. It only has 26% PAO synthetic base stock as compared to 50% in the Aeroshell. I left Exxon AFTER the Elite testing was complete and it was ready for release. My comments on rust test were meant to show that there is barely a significant difference between the Elite and the Aeroshell. They both contain 0.05% of a ferrous metal rust inhibitor. This is all they can use of that type without running into other problems. Exxons is just a little better than Shells. Camguard uses different technology.

============
Aeroshell 15W-50 / Exxon Elite
PAO synthetic base stock 50% / 26%
Dispersant (nitrogen) 3% / 3%
vicosity modifier (standard) 5% / 5% Viscosity modifier (dispersant)
Phosphate ester antiscuff 1% / 1.5%
Rust inhibitor 0.05% / 0.05%
Yellow metal inhibitor 0.05% / 0.05%
Anitfoam trace / trace

The other 40% of Aeroshell 15W50 and 65% of Exxon Elite are a blend of brightstock (heavy base stock) and solvent 600N (medium weight basestock). They are the mineral base stocks blended in proportion to meet the required viscometrics.

==================
I have an IO-520. I use Phillips 20W-50 in the fall winter and spring. I use Aeroshell W100 in the summer. Of course I use Camguard in both. I am in NJ.

There is no benefit to using W100 Plus with Camguard over W100 with Camguard. However, if you ARE using 100 Plus, Camguard mitigates the aggressiveness of the W100 Plus's phosphate ester antiscuff towards seals.
__________________
Edward Kollin
Technical Director - Aircraft Specialties Lubricants
Makers of CamGuard
http://www.aslcamguard.com

============================
The following is from the Cessna Pilots Society Forum. Ed Kollin is the
chemist/engineer who helped design CorrosionX, Rejex and CamGuard. Might
have to change to Phillips 20W-50. Currently using AS W100 and CamGuard,
with much improved oil analysis wear indications since using CamGuard (1,000
hours on IO-520D).

MP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI there is very little difference in the available oils.

Here is a breakdown of the different oils. They are VERY simple formulations
and all are compatible in any proportion. The viscometerics is the only
thing that will vary by mixing multi with straight weight.

AeroShell W100 - Solvent 600N commodity basestock, brightstock (thick)
commodity basestock, dispersant, antioxidant, antifoam, and pour point
depressant. 35 year old technology.

AeroShell W100Plus - Solvent 600N commodity basestock, brightstock (thick)
commodity basestock, dispersant, antioxidant, rust inhibitor, copper
corrosion inhibitor, antifoam, and pour point depressant. 35 year old
technology.

Phillips 20W-50 - Solvent 600N commodity basestock, brightstock (thick)
commodity basestock, viscosity modifier, dispersant, antioxidant, antifoam,
and pour point depressant. 27 year old technology

Aeroshell 15W50 - PAO synthetic basestock, solvent 600N commodity basestock,
brightstock (thick) commodity basestock, viscosity modifier, dispersant,
phosphate antiscuff, antioxidant, rust inhibitor, copper corrosion inhibitor
and antifoam. 20 year old technology.

Exxon Elite 20W-50 - PAO synthetic basestock, solvent 600N commodity
basestock, brightstock (thick) commodity basestock, multi-functional
(dispersant) viscosity modifier, phosphate antiscuff, antioxidant, and
antifoam. 15 year old technology.

In my opinion they are all poor. Would you except rust and deposits in your
car? Why do you in your plane?

Regards,

Ed

You should know I designed Camguard as the (minimum) additive package that
should be in aviation oil. I assume Shell did this as well. Exxon copied
Aeroshell 15W-50 so in a roundabout way they did also. Formulators
historically know what additives to put in piston engine oils, antioxidants,
corrosion inhibitors, anti-foam, etc. There are a few problems when you
formulate for a "specialized" case like an aircraft engine. Leaded fuel,
very high blow-by rates and ashless requirements make for interesting
challenges.

When Mobil AV1 came out using 100% PAO synthetic basestock, it was obvious
to me that they had little understanding of piston aviation. Shell then made
the same mistake, oops no we didn't, we only used 50% PAO (the worst
possible synthetic base stock for aviation).

Then they additized their oil based on the typical yet incorrect notion of
protecting the oil from breakdown as they would in auto or diesel oils. BUT
oils don't breakdown (oxidize) in the short amount of time they are in our
aircraft they become CONTAMINATED. And formulating for contamination is very
different than formulating for breakdown.

I know Shell and Exxon products are woefully inadequate. I know what is in
them and I have seen their lack of performance. I know they have 0.05% rust
inhibitor which is 20 times to low. I know they have 0.5% antioxidant which
is WAY to low. I know they use phosphate esters as anti-scuff agents whose
use is historic in nature not performance driven and not without real
problems.

I know these things and because Shell and Exxon use PAO and the additives in
the concentration they use I can only conclude they do not understand the
target engines they are formulating for.

This does not mean planes will fall out of the sky using Aeroshell or Elite,
but you would never accept rust or deposits in your car why do you in your
aircraft?

Camguard uses 11 high performance additives most of which are
multi-functional. They are all commercially available and expensive. I use
multiple ferrous and non ferrous corrosion inhibitors, multiple anti-wear
chemistries a very potent antioxidant/deposit control package. When I was
working on the Elite for Exxon I reported my findings. They were surprised
at the cost of the additive and VERY surprised at the recommended treat
rates. The final formulation was a copy of the Aeroshell 15W-50 for business
reasons.

So what do I think? I recommend what I use, Phillips 20W-50 with Camguard
year round. The additives in Camguard SWAMP those in Aeroshell 15W-50 and
Elite so why pay for them.

Well Greg you did it, you got me started.

Regards,

Ed
 
Thanks for the post, Domenick.

I recently got back into ownership. My first craft was a 172P and I loved the D2J engine. I regret selling it in 2011, but circumstances dictated it. In my recent search for its replacement, I swore off N models. Lo and behold, a deal came up that was too good to pass up. You guessed it, 172N with the "dreaded" H2AD.

So, by AD, I need to run the Lycoming LW16702 additive. The previous owners ran it on Exxon Elite and we're at ~3950 hours SMOH. I lament that Exxon no longer produces Elite.

If not for the AD, I would run Phillip's 20w50 with Cam Guard. Echoing Ed's comments and chiming in with Mike Busch's own comments, synthetic oils have no business running in engines that burn leaded gas. The polymers break down too easily and are unable to effectively scavenge the lead contained in the blow-by. However, despite that, I admit that I run Aeroshell 15w50 due to cost. Unless someone can point me towards a good (cheaper :)) source for LW16702...

I'm convinced my ideal oil is Phillip's XC 20w50 with Cam Guard for anti rust and LW16702 for anti scuff and AD compliance. That works out to be more than double Aeroshell. Perhaps I should bite the bullet and remind myself it's cheap insurance ..and overhauls, not so much.
 
I'm convinced my ideal oil is Phillip's XC 20w50 with Cam Guard for anti rust and LW16702 for anti scuff and AD compliance. That works out to be more than double Aeroshell. Perhaps I should bite the bullet and remind myself it's cheap insurance ..and overhauls, not so much.

Why not use Phillips Victory 20W50 (which already contains the LW16702 additive) with Camguard?
 
Back
Top