Advice needed for next 6 seater purchase

OzzyBlue

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
10
Display Name

Display name:
OzzyBlue
G’day everyone, I’m hoping for a bit of advice on my next aircraft purchase.

For background, I’ve been flying for a little over a year. Have 300+ hours and am almost finished commercial and IFR ratings. I fly on the west coast regularly with the average one way trip being 500+NM. I mostly land on 3000ft paved runways, often at 4000ft or so altitude. Lots of mountain flying and prefer 13-17k cruise altitudes. Mission usually includes my wife and 3yo daughter plus a lot of luggage. I’ve owned three planes (beech B19, Cessna 205) and I’m currently flying a Cessna T210k which does most of what I need, but not all so I’m in the search for my next 3-5+ year plane and the equation is doing my head in a bit lol.

Needs:
6 seats with 1200lbs+ usable (higher the better), 90+ gallon tanks, solid IFR platform, factory oxygen, full deice (fiki preferred), turbo powered, 180-200+ knots, single engine, ability to fit into 40’ hangar

Wants:
Super comfortable and roomy interior for family, easy access, factory A/C, high wing would be nice

Budget: around $500k

My T210k checks most most of the boxes but I don’t see it as a long term prospect. It doesn’t have the loading ease that I’d like and it’s slower than I’d like long term. I flight plan on 150knots and I never see close to the published speeds, POH says 187knots TAS which is beyond wishful thinking.

I’d thought I’d end up buying a newer T206h but after speaking to a few owners, their speeds are no better or less than I’m getting now so that’s not exciting.

I looked at and ruled out the Bonanza. Wife doesn’t like it and I find it a bit cramped.

Then I found the Piper matrix and kinda fell in love. It does everything I need it to, looks great for the family, fast, stable etc etc. i also looked at an older Malibu. I’m open to it but not convinced the extra weight and cost associated with pressurization is worth it. In any case, that airframe is too wide for my hangar and I don’t want to tie down or relocate.

I then looked at the Saratoga II TC which looks pretty good comfort and speed wise but the useful load is dismal. Most that are up for sale have sub 1000lbs which is a non starter. I can’t find an STC to increase that so again, moving on

So I’m now seriously looking at a mid 1980’s Saratoga SP. Older than I’d like but Useful load is excellent (most have 1400lbs +), comfort and loading ability looks great and published speeds are ok. I figure I can get into one for mid to high 200k and upgrade Avionics etc to make it more modern.

So that’s where I’m at and I simply have two questions:
1) am I missing anything that I should be looking at?
2) are there any Saratoga SP owners out there that can give me actual numbers on their air speeds? I definitely don’t want to go slower than I am right now.

Thanks in advance!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I just went through essentially the same process you did with a similar list of wants and needs and ended up purchasing a T206H.

Just a few of thoughts that you have probably already considered:
-Insurance companies may not be excited about insuring a 300 hour pilot in a Matrix/M350. I do wish they could shave 4' off the wingspan so that it would fit in a standard T-hangar.
-Annual and recurring maintenance costs may be significantly lower on a newer aircraft and you may encounter fewer maintenance issues overall.
-Not looking to start a contentious discussion, but I'm not convinced flying piston singles into known ice is safe regardless of certification. This is a thought provoking article by Richard Collins - https://www.flyingmag.com/safety/weather/madness-icing/
-The lack of speed and fuel consumption on the T206H are definitely drawbacks, but I love being in the cockpit and reached the conclusion that adding an extra 30 minutes to my typical cross country flight is not always a bad thing. If you are trying to build total time to ultimately end up in a turbine or pressurized single/twin, flying a little slower will work in your favor.
-If multiengine is on your radar, there are quite a few nice Senecas on the market that would come close to your budget. I very nearly ended up with a 2012 Seneca V instead of the T206. A Seneca would check your turbo, FIKI, and O2 boxes. Passengers will love the back seats. Useful load is borderline. Like the M350, insurance could be a bear.

Cheers. Make sure to follow up with what you decide on.
 
Last edited:
I just went through essentially the same process you did with a similar list of wants and needs and ended up purchasing a T206H.

Just a few of thoughts that you have probably already considered:
-Insurance companies may not be excited about insuring a 300 hour pilot in a Matrix/M350. I do wish they could shave 4' off the wingspan so that it would fit in a standard T-hangar.
-Annual and recurring maintenance costs may be significantly lower on a newer aircraft and you may encounter fewer maintenance issues overall.
-Not looking to start a contentious discussion, but I'm not convinced flying piston singles into known ice is safe regardless of certification. This is a thought provoking article by Richard Collins - https://www.flyingmag.com/safety/weather/madness-icing/
-The lack of speed and fuel consumption on the T206H are definitely drawbacks, but I love being in the cockpit and reached the conclusion that adding an extra 30 minutes to my typical cross country flight is not always a bad thing. If you are trying to build total time to ultimately end up in a turbine or pressurized single/twin, flying a little slower will work in your favor.
-If multiengine is on your radar, there are quite a few nice Senecas on the market that would come close to your budget. I very nearly ended up with a 2012 Seneca V instead of the T206. A Seneca would check your turbo, FIKI, and O2 boxes. Passengers will love the back seats. Full fuel useful load is borderline. Like the M350, insurance could be a bear.

Cheers. Make sure to follow up with what you decide on.

Thanks for that mate, all good notes, pretty much follows my logic so far.

The fiki is purely for capabilities rather than a desire to fly into fiki conditions. There’s frankly no place I need to be more important than keeping my family safe on the ground vs flying into ice.

I hear you on the costs which is why I wanted a newer plane. Insurance will let me have a matrix in another 100 hrs or so but yeah, won’t fit in my hangar and hangars are rare as hens teeth in SoCal.

Twin prop may be a move at some point, just not now. I think the dream ride would be a turbo prop PA-46... one day when my pockets are deeper.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts. I think when it comes to decision time the T206H will still be in the mix. What TAS do you plan and achieve?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Would an Aerostar 601P or variant work?

insurance would be a bear, but your mission sounds like it requires a twin.

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/piper-aerostar-600-601-700p/

I honestly haven’t looked at twins for the insurance + maintenance issues. It may be in my future but I think the next one will be a single. Good call though, I think I’m trying to find a single for a twin mission so there’ll have to be compromises.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sorry but I 2nd the malibu. Around 6:30 this gentleman recommends ‘86-‘89 for a couple reasons in case you decide to look further into it.

 
Sorry but I 2nd the malibu. Around 6:30 this gentleman recommends ‘86-‘89 for a couple reasons in case you decide to look further into it.


Yeah, checks every box for sure. Just means being on a tie down near the ocean. Maybe I just get really good at wrapping it in covers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Honestly I feel like the Malibu is your best option.. the usefull load offered by many contemporary Saratoga are pitiful. It's barely even at 4 person plane. The bonanzas, I agree, feel cramped.. especially considering how imposing they look on the ramp

Sounds like your only realistic single option is an older Piper or Malibu if you really want the speed
 
Thanks for that mate, all good notes, pretty much follows my logic so far.

The fiki is purely for capabilities rather than a desire to fly into fiki conditions. There’s frankly no place I need to be more important than keeping my family safe on the ground vs flying into ice.

I hear you on the costs which is why I wanted a newer plane. Insurance will let me have a matrix in another 100 hrs or so but yeah, won’t fit in my hangar and hangars are rare as hens teeth in SoCal.

Twin prop may be a move at some point, just not now. I think the dream ride would be a turbo prop PA-46... one day when my pockets are deeper.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts. I think when it comes to decision time the T206H will still be in the mix. What TAS do you plan and achieve?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd be happy with 150kts in the T206. The performance charts make that speed look attainable with an 18-20gph burn in the teens. It certainly won't win any speed or endurance records. Delivery is scheduled for December, so I'll let you know.

I was looking at an M350 earlier this year and I heard about an owner who was able to fit one in his T hangar by using dollies. The door opening was just under 42' but the overall hangar width was about 46'. I think he essentially maneuvered it in sideways. They're beautiful airplanes for sure. Moving up to a Meridian or TBM at some point in the future is my plan as well if the finances make that possible.

Cheers
 
I can't think of a plane that is more unsuitable to a one year experience 300 hour pilot with an ASEL certificate and a family.
I interpreted his next 3-5 year plane as a plane that he would buy in 3-5 years, giving him time to build experience and get additional training. Sounds like he’s leaning towards a single so obviously that wouldn’t work. There’s not exactly a ton of great high altitude six-seat fiki singles.
 
This was in a Malibu. Not FIKI but capable of going around it rather easily and a TAS of 207 at 22 gph ain't nuttin to sneeze at...
15289.jpeg
 
I expect/hope to be in the same position some day with the same needs, and have already decided on a TSIO-520 Malibu.
 
I'd be happy with 150kts in the T206. The performance charts make that speed look attainable with an 18-20gph burn in the teens. It certainly won't win any speed or endurance records. Delivery is scheduled for December, so I'll let you know.

I was looking at an M350 earlier this year and I heard about an owner who was able to fit one in his T hangar by using dollies. The door opening was just under 42' but the overall hangar width was about 46'. I think he essentially maneuvered it in sideways. They're beautiful airplanes for sure. Moving up to a Meridian or TBM at some point in the future is my plan as well if the finances make that possible.

Cheers

Thanks for the feedback mate. Getting a factory new aircraft would be amazing! I’ll have to see what magic I can pull off to get a Malibu or matrix in my doors. It seems like it’s the best option all around. When I’m doing 2000nm turnarounds saving a couple of hours flight time each day is significant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Honestly I feel like the Malibu is your best option.. the usefull load offered by many contemporary Saratoga are pitiful. It's barely even at 4 person plane. The bonanzas, I agree, feel cramped.. especially considering how imposing they look on the ramp

Sounds like your only realistic single option is an older Piper or Malibu if you really want the speed

Agreed. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top