ADIZ Question - What is the no-mans-land in between?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by kicktireslightfires, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. kicktireslightfires

    kicktireslightfires Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hoping someone can help me better understand the ADIZ:

    Why is there an inner AND outer line for the ADIZ? I thought it was just one line and if you cross it then you’ve exited or entered the country's airspace. What is the no-man’s-land in between the inner and outer marker of the ADIZ? And must you be on a DVFR flight plan to cross over the INNER boundary of the ADIZ? For example, if you’re flying VFR from Fort Myers to Key West OR from Tampa to New Orleans, can you cross that inner boundary without filing a flight plan and you’re okay so long as you don’t go outside of the outer boundary?
     
  2. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That is the zone. Except on the Mexican border the zone is not a line.
     
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  3. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's where they shoot you down!
     
  4. SkyChaser

    SkyChaser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Because it's an ADIZ - Air Defense Identification Zone. If there weren't two lines with a "no-man's-land" in between, it'd be the ADIL or air defense identification line. :D

    I don't think you want to be flying into that area without a flight plan.
     
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  5. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Prolly cuz they don’t want airplane parts raining down on US peoplz when they get blowed up. Shoot em down before they cross a more internal line. Maybe.
     
  6. kicktireslightfires

    kicktireslightfires Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ha-ha. No one gets shot down. Would appreciate factual insight if anyone has it.
     
  7. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I treat it as one big line. Don’t have an answer for you regarding transgressions over the inner boundary. Go do it and report back. If nothing bad happens you should go multiple times to validate the data.
     
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  8. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is the factual insight. It's a zone in which you can be identified as friend or foe.
     
  9. Dwayne

    Dwayne Filing Flight Plan

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    How wide is the "zone"?
     
  10. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It varies from zero (along the Mexican Border) to over 50 miles wide at places (like coming in toward Manhattan).
     
  11. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I’ve seen a few ADIZ violations in the east coast (SC coast) on radar. No one gets shoot down. NORAD working with the off shore agency (FACSFAC) has a line to ANG and they send fighters to intercept. It’s really a non event…unless you’re the GA pilot who didn’t file a DVFR / IFR flight plan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  12. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Well that’s no fun if you can’t get blowed up.

    No facts from me, I was just entertaining.
     
  13. RRAT

    RRAT Filing Flight Plan

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    I think it is a zone with two sides, because if it was just a line it would go forever all the way around the Earth. Air defense would have to be identifying aircraft everywhere in the world. So, if you enter the zone from either side, you are subject to being identified. If you can sneak all the way through the zone without being identified, I'm sure someone would want to know about that, too.
     
  14. Dwayne

    Dwayne Filing Flight Plan

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    So, how do we define the "zone" along the Mexican border?
     
  15. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Historical context: During the height of the Cold War, the ADIZ was a major daily fact of life, even in many domestic flights. It was figured that the Russkies were least likely to attack us from the south, so the Southern Border ADIZ was just a line even then. This from a 1958 sectional chart:

    Screen Shot 2021-10-16 at 12.37.02 PM.jpg
     
  16. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's the border itself. The "into" part of 99.11 applies but within doesn't exist.
     
  17. Maxnr

    Maxnr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No Gulf of Mexico ADIZ? We're defenseless against Cuba.
     
  18. MikeNY

    MikeNY Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

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    Check AIM 5−6−1 for ADIZ Requirements, including …

    c. Operational requirements for aircraft operations associated with an ADIZ are as follows:
    1. Flight Plan. Except as specified in subparagraphs d and e below, an IFR or DVFR flight plan must be filed with an appropriate aeronautical facility as follows:
    (a) Generally, for all operations that enter an ADIZ.
    (b) For operations that will enter or exit the U.S. and which will operate into, within or across the Contiguous U.S. ADIZ regardless of true airspeed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  19. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The AIM amplifies the procedure, but 99.11 casts it into stone. Entering the zone (that is crossing any of the lines) or operating within or from an airport within requires the appropriate flight plan.
     
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