Add On MEL

Shipoke

Shipoke

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shipoke
i'm a 250 hour PPL SEL and want to add MEL,any idea how long it would take to do this.
Dave G.

Guess i should add that i don't have HP/Complex.

There is a airport here that says they can get me there for around $1500/$1800 in a Grumman Cougar, does that sound about right
 
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Might be possible, might be a little on the low side.
 
Forget the MEL, just carry a boatload of placards.:rofl:

Ohhhhh, you meant the multi...

Saying you're at 250TT doesn't mean as much as saying how proficient you are right now. There is a 10 hour minimum requirement per FAA but how comfortable you are in the cockpit and how comfortable you are learning a bunch of new stuff will be factors in how much the ME add on will cost. Also, if you're instrument rated you may want to add that too, that would be another factor.

Plan on at least 5 two hour flights, actually probably more like 10 two hour flights. But that's just a ballpark 'cause it attempts to quantify unknown factors. For cost, maybe take direct operating costs/hr and triple that. It's a WAG.

Can you make a copy of the POH or AFM before you start? Pretty much memorize Section 2 Limitations and Section 3 Emergency Procedures and the V-speeds. If cross feed, be able to draw from memory a fuel system schematic and know the function of each component and under what scenario a component may not function. (I would think all twins have crossfeed but am not certain of that.)


What I'm saying is start that brain work as soon as you decide to start the training.
 
Couple of things to think. What rating you presently have like your Instrument, Commercial and Instructor they can be included on your Multi check ride or you will have to do it again for each one. The flight portion is mostly single Engine operation procedures and the oral is mostly what happens to the multi went losing a engine. HP is a aircraft with over 200 Hp some Multi do not have 200 Hp.
Good Luck and have fun
 
Jaime P said:
Couple of things to think. What rating you presently have like your Instrument, Commercial and Instructor they can be included on your Multi check ride or you will have to do it again for each one. The flight portion is mostly single Engine operation procedures and the oral is mostly what happens to the multi went losing a engine. HP is a aircraft with over 200 Hp some Multi do not have 200 Hp.
Good Luck and have fun
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Never thought about it but if a multi has two 180hp engines (total of 360hp) doe sone need an HP endorsment inaddition to the other applicable ratings?
 
smigaldi said:
Never thought about it but if a multi has two 180hp engines (total of 360hp) doe sone need an HP endorsment inaddition to the other applicable ratings?
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Twins are considered HP on a per engine basis, each engine >200hp is HP twin.
 
Dave, one of the things that the CFIs at Aerotech tell me is that doing complex and MEL together slows things down a bit. You gotta learn gear and cowl flaps and that constant speed prop all at the same time as figuring out what to do with a dead engine on one side. I haven't done MEL yet, but have done complex. It is kind of a handfull for those of us used to a stiff legger for the first couple of yours. IME.

Jim G
 
Thanks Jim, thought about that, i do have some Complex time in Ed's mooney just dont have the signoff yet,need to fly with him somemore if he ever stays home(lol)
Dave G
 
Richard said:
There is a 10 hour minimum requirement per FAA but how comfortable you are in the cockpit and how comfortable you are learning a bunch of new stuff will be factors in how much the ME add on will cost.
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Where's the 10 hour minimum?

61.63

(c) Additional class rating. Any person who applies for an additional class rating to be added on a pilot certificate:
(1) Must have an endorsement in his or her logbook or training record from an authorized instructor and that endorsement must attest that the applicant has been found competent in the aeronautical knowledge areas appropriate to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought;
(2) Must have an endorsement in his or her logbook or training record from an authorized instructor, and that endorsement must attest that the applicant has been found proficient in the areas of operation appropriate to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought;
(3) Must pass the required practical test that is appropriate to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought;
(4) Need not meet the specified training time requirements prescribed by this part that apply to the pilot certificate for the aircraft class rating sought unless the person holds a lighter-than-air category rating with a balloon class rating and is seeking an airship class rating and
(5) Need not take an additional knowledge test, provided the applicant holds an airplane, rotorcraft, powered-lift, or airship rating at that pilot certificate level.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Twins are considered HP on a per engine basis, each engine >200hp is HP twin.
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And that can be found here:

61.31
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower),
 
Bill Jennings said:
Twins are considered HP on a per engine basis, each engine >200hp is HP twin.
Click to expand...

Bill,

Don't want to be a nit picker but since the rule change several years ago the engine has to be rated at greater than 200 hp. So, any aircraft with engine(s) less than or equal to 200 hp is not high performance.

Len
 
>200 does mean "greater than 200."
 
grattonja said:
Dave, one of the things that the CFIs at Aerotech tell me is that doing complex and MEL together slows things down a bit. You gotta learn gear and cowl flaps and that constant speed prop all at the same time as figuring out what to do with a dead engine on one side. I haven't done MEL yet, but have done complex. It is kind of a handfull for those of us used to a stiff legger for the first couple of yours. IME.

Jim G
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I strongly recommend you get signed off on the complex endorsement and fly enough trips in a relatively fast retract (150+KTAS) before taking the multi training. There's a good chance you will finish both at a lower cost than tackling the multi first. If most of your experience is in Cherokees, Skyhawks, and Skylanes, you will spend the first ten hours of expensive twin training just trying to catch up with the plane. If OTOH, you are comfortable with prop controls, cowl flaps, retractable gear, and descending towards the airport at over 200 mph groundspeed you can finish the multi transition in well under 10 hours.
 
For a pilot with no complex experience, the multi training will take a lot longer than one with even 10 hours or so in a complex plane, especially one similar to the twin (e.g., Arrow to Seminole). The more complex experience, the better.

In addition, getting the ME rating and being a proficient ME pilot are two entirely different things. If you doubt that, just ask the school at which you get the rating if they'll let you take the twin out on an overnight solo XC an hour after the examiner signs your Temporary Airman Certificate. I could probably stuff someone already complex-proficient through a ME rating practical test with a tame examiner in 6 hours, but that person would not be safe for solo in a twin. A more reasonable program to turn you into a light twin pilot (as opposed to merely the holder of an ME rating) would be about 18 hours for an experienced complex pilot and 25 hours for one with no complex experience.

Also, "high performance" means an airplane with "an engine" that is rated at "more than 200 HP." Seneca I's with IO-360's rated at 200 HP are not high performance ("more than 200 HP"), but the Seneca II+'s that have engines rated at 200HP at sea level and 215 HP above 12,000 feet are. Also, if you had a push-pull plane (I can't imagine this working any other way) with a 250 HP front engine and 150 HP back engine it would be high performance ("an engine").
 
Jaime P said:
What rating you presently have like your Instrument, Commercial and Instructor they can be included on your Multi check ride or you will have to do it again for each one.
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While the holder of a C-ASEL-IA certificate will have to pass instrument tasks (including an engine failure and OEI approach under the hood) on his ME additional rating ride, there is no requirement for instrument tasks other than basic instrument flying when adding an ME rating to a CFI certificate, even if the instructor already has an IA rating on his CFI ticket. If you have a CFI-ASE, and add the AME rating, you can later take the IA ride in a single, and never have to do multiengine instrument instruction tasks. Likewise, the holder of a CFI-ASE-IA need not perform any instrument tasks other than basic instrument flying when adding the AME rating. Only if you take the IA additional rating ride in a twin will you have to do OEI maneuvering and approaches under the hood, and I don't think many folks open themselves up to trouble that way.
 
Shipoke said:
Thanks Jim, thought about that, i do have some Complex time in Ed's mooney just dont have the signoff yet,need to fly with him somemore if he ever stays home(lol)
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I'd resent that comment if I weren't typing this post from Germany...
 
Ron Levy said:
In addition, getting the ME rating and being a proficient ME pilot are two entirely different things. If you doubt that, just ask the school at which you get the rating if they'll let you take the twin out on an overnight solo XC an hour after the examiner signs your Temporary Airman Certificate.
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While I agree in general, Aerotech is indeed just that exception FBO. When you take the training and checkride with Aerotech, in the Cougar, you are immediately approved on their insurance policy.
 
Ron Levy said:
(snip) ...and I don't think many folks open themselves up to trouble that way.
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What trouble are pilots opening themselves up to in other circumstances ? Use me as an example. I'm CAX-ASEL-IA, was there a more economical route to CAX-AMEL-IA without skipping the ASEL part ?

So far, the teaching bug hasn't bite me...
 
jdwatson said:
What trouble are pilots opening themselves up to in other circumstances ? Use me as an example. I'm CAX-ASEL-IA, was there a more economical route to CAX-AMEL-IA without skipping the ASEL part ? So far, the teaching bug hasn't bite me...
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Can't use you as an example because you're not going for CFI, and it's a CFI case about which I was speaking. There is no more economical route to C-ASMEL-IA than the route you're taking (P-ASEL, P-ASEL-IA, C-ASEL-IA, C-ASMEL-IA).
 
Ron Levy said:
Can't use you as an example because you're not going for CFI, and it's a CFI case about which I was speaking. There is no more economical route to C-ASMEL-IA than the route you're taking (P-ASEL, P-ASEL-IA, C-ASEL-IA, C-ASMEL-IA).
Click to expand...

Thanks! I thought I missed something. Nice routing for CFIs !
 
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