Actual operating costs comparisson Stats

J

jorgeelizondom

Filing Flight Plan
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Jun 24, 2010
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Nineties' pilot
Hi,
I've been wanting to compare the actual operating cost of several single and twin airplanes... (gas/oil, engine/prop maintenance, etc) on a per hour and per mile basis.

Is there a place that keeps this kind of statistics? I'd rather have actual recordings rather than published figures. But either would suffice.

It would be nice to include a couple of private jets in the comparison, just for fun.

I was using planequest.com, but the figures don't seem to make much sense, therefore I believe, the stats there are faulty.

Cheers
 
Where do you think the publishers of own/op information get their data? from Pelosi and Reid?:p

Cirrusly, even the companies that collect and publish owner-provided information include caveats that the cost information is highly inaccurate due to the differing methods used by owners to accumulate and report their numbers.

Bear in mind that many costs may vary widely due to locale and other factors. A hangar at White Plains, NY might cost $1,000/mo, compared to a much better hangar in Plainview, TX for $100/mo. I might be able to insure an airplane for $2,000/year based on pilot time, ratings and Make/model experience. You might be required to pay $5,000 for the same coverage.

Fuel cost/gal is $6 where I'm based, but I can buy it for $3.60 by flying 40 miles up the road. Which number should I use?

One owner might include capital costs in his fixed expenses, and add engine, prop, airframe and avionics reserves to his hourly cost, while another owner might ignore capital costs "I would have owned it anyway" and use only the cost of fuel as his number.

Bottom line is that you're screwed. Pick the numbers you like best and go with them.
 
wabower said:
Bottom line is that you're screwed. Pick the numbers you like best and go with them.
Click to expand...
Not at all screwed. Just tell us the result you want to prove, and we'll provide numbers to support it! :idea::D
 
gprellwitz said:
Not at all screwed. Just tell us the result you want to prove, and we'll provide numbers to support it! :idea::D
Click to expand...
Has anybody ever told you that you have a wonderful way with words?
 
The secret to happiness to to treat reality like a golf club. You do not want too firm a grasp, it can ruin the whole game.

Also never calculate the cost of owning an airplane, if you do you may have to tell your spouse.
 
Areeda said:
The secret to happiness to to treat reality like a golf club. You do not want too firm a grasp, it can ruin the whole game.

Also never calculate the cost of owning an airplane, if you do you may have to tell your spouse.
Click to expand...
Leslie and I have made a point of never calculating how much we've spent on flying, especially since we don't even own a plane! Yet, we have over 1000 hours between us, and the average price of a flight hour is ... :hairraise::cryin::hairraise::cryin:
 
If you want relatively clean numbers for bigger iron, ie corporate jets, there are multiple reliable sources. But if you're looking at owner-flown piston singles, the numbers are all over the place.

Like previous posters, I don't really WANT to know. I've had to calculate it for tax returns and it REALLY ruins your day.

Short term, you're at the mercy of avionics repairs, engine hiccups and, gasp, maybe an unlucky Airworthiness Directive. But all that said, it's remarkable how, long term, four times the cost of fuel seems to hold up OK. Note this would not include insurance, hangar or payment, just fuel, oil, annuals and some maintenance reserve. Of course, even this really loose rule of thumb goes out the window if you buy something and only fly it 50 hours a year -- which I believe is more common than you might think.
 
gprellwitz said:
Leslie and I have made a point of never calculating how much we've spent on flying, especially since we don't even own a plane! Yet, we have over 1000 hours between us, and the average price of a flight hour is ... :hairraise::cryin::hairraise::cryin:
Click to expand...

How many of us have kept track of all of our costs (excluding those
who do so for tax purposes)? When the cost of an extensive overhaul*
of my 140 hit $23,000 I stopped keeping track.

Of course, the seven annuals since then have been quick and easy.


*Penn Yan overhaul and STCs to convert to 160hp
prop overhaul
new spinner
Completion of AC removal
engine mount
new starter
new alternator
oil cooler overhaul
new fuel and oil lines
new windshield
digital OAT probe
new digital tach
new copper cables
new brake lines
new tires
new stabilator drum
change bowtie yokes to rams horn yokes
new/overhauled exhaust
 
Ken Ibold said:
Of course, even this really loose rule of thumb goes out the window if you buy something and only fly it 50 hours a year -- which I believe is more common than you might think.
Click to expand...

Fifty? That's probably well ABOVE average.

The guy down at the end of my hangar row is resurrecting a 1958 [something - I forget] Skimmer (predecessor to the Lake) - last flow in the late 1970's or early '80s. 30 or so years of hangar rent and zero hours.
 
As far as flying goes, the 'statistical mean' cost per hour matters very little because the standard deviation is so large.

You can talk to two pilots who own and fly the exact same type of plane a similar number of hours, and they can have vastly different ownership costs depending on a number of factors (hangar vs tiedown, insurance coverage, upgrades, and the big dog... maintenance).
 
I was the treasurer of a flying club with two Piper Archers and a 182 for five years, and I love playing with numbers...

Our hourly rates (per tach hour) towards the end of that time (last year) were based on the following:

1) Fuel. We had a surcharge structure in place that allowed me to normalize the price of fuel to $3.25/gallon for the base rates. The Archers burned 10.0 gallons/tach hour, and the 182 burned 13.0 gallons per tach hour, both of those numbers staying amazingly consistent and within a few hundredths of a gallon per hour over time. So, $32.50/hour for the Archers, $42.25/hour for the 182. With the surcharge, Each time the price of fuel went up by $0.30 we'd bump the rates up $3/hr for the Archers and $4/hr (rounded from $3.90) for the 182. Either way, this is one of the easiest cost items to calculate.

2) Oil was fairly negligible. Add a buck an hour and you should have it covered, provided your engine isn't sucking it down (ie, you don't have a radial. :rofl:)

3) Reserves. We used an upgrade reserve number of $5/hr, and an engine reserve based on the cost of the overhaul divided by the TBO of the engine. That comes to an engine reserve of about $8/hr for the Archers ($16K MOH and 2000 TBO) and $17/hr for the 182 ($26K MOH and 1500 TBO). However, after our latest overhaul experience, we'll likely add a pretty big cushion for R&R.

4) Maintenance. This is a HUGE wild card, and will vary widely from year to year. We had annuals ranging from $1500 to $8000, regular trips to the shop between $200 and $700, and the occasional surprise of anywhere from $3,000 to $15,000. My guidance on maintenance for these relatively simple (fixed-gear, etc) singles would be to plan on $10,000 per year or $50 per hour, whichever is greater, and be prepared for the occasional surprise.

Then, there's the fixed expenses:

1) Insurance. You can get an insurance quote from Avemco quite easily with a simple phone call. Be sure you're ready with ballpark numbers for your total time, time in type, and any of the following that are applicable: Complex/retract time, multi time (or any other category/class other than ASEL that may apply), etc. Prices will range from $1000 or less for a single owner with a simple, used (ie low hull value) fixed-gear single to $10,000 or so for a new Cirrus with multiple partners to upwards of $30,000/year for a light jet on a 135 certificate. (How do I know this? You'd be AMAZED how often various fuel/insurance/etc bills get sent to the wrong customers...)

2) Storage. I highly recommend a hangar! You may pay anywhere from $100/mo in a rural area for a spot in a community hangar or a cheap tee to $600/mo or more for a heated hangar with an electric door in a metro area.

3) Loan payment, or cost of the money you have sunk into an airplane that's not making interest - I'll leave this to you.

If you're living in an average place with an average simple airplane (like an Archer), expect your plane to cost $15,000 a year or so ($3600 hangar, $900-$1000 insurance, $10,000 min maintenance) even if you only fly it an hour. The more you fly, the less your hourly total costs will be.

If you fly a LOT (min 100-150 hours/year), it makes financial sense to own. If you fly less, say 50 hours/year, a multiple-owner scenario (partnership or club) makes a lot more sense. If you rarely fly (10 hours/year or less), stick with renting.
 
If you have to ask........


Just sayin.
 
Operating expense---Nada.

Hangar::idea: We live on an airpark so the hangar is free--comes with the house.
Annuals: I'm an IA so no labor. Any parts are ordered via the internet on plastic so the expense just disappears into the other household stuff.

Fuel: I use the same card for airplane that I do for the cars so the fuel cost just disappears.

Insurance: We have to have insurance for home, cars, etc so why worry about the paltry airplane policy.

Wife when she's at the computer entering stuff into those Excel sheets she is so fond of::hairraise: "Hey Sweety are you ready for a drinky poo? Let me fix you a nice drink." A little sweet talk to go with the drink and a quick refill and the Excel sheet is no longer a factor.

So really airplane expenses don't really count and should be considered negligble.:thumbsup:

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
 
Well, it depends. But my experience with a 1974 Cessna 172 is that it costs about $8k - $10k in fixed costs and $80 per tach hour in variable costs (including engine reserve). The plane gets flown ~150 tach hours each year, which probably isn't typical.
 
+1 for the "if you have to ask"

The only useful information is to come up with the MINIMUM you are going to need:

fuel, tiedown/hangar, minimal price for annual, insurance.

Then you could have a prop overhaul, new engine because there is metal in your oil filter, or some radio goes out. There is just no way to predict. At any time during the life of the plane you could have to spend 1/2 its value on maintenance or repairs...
 
n12365 said:
Well, it depends. But my experience with a 1974 Cessna 172 is that it costs about $8k - $10k in fixed costs and $80 per tach hour in variable costs (including engine reserve). The plane gets flown ~150 tach hours each year, which probably isn't typical.
Click to expand...
Yes, I would say $1K a month would be a good number to allow for a simple 4-seater.
 
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