? about Silver State Helicopters

Dean

Dean

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Dean
An old co-worker/friend called me the other night and told me he was signing up for helicopter training through Silver State in Tulsa. OK. I saw on the net where there had been several law suits against them for fails advertising and not coming through on their promises made at their seminars. If any of you know anything about them, send me a PM so I can give him a heads up. He checked with the BBB in Tulsa and they had no complaints on this one. Most of their trouble has been in AZ and NV.
 
Dean said:
An old co-worker/friend called me the other night and told me he was signing up for helicopter training through Silver State in Tulsa. OK. I saw on the net where there had been several law suits against them for fails advertising and not coming through on their promises made at their seminars. If any of you know anything about them, send me a PM so I can give him a heads up. He checked with the BBB in Tulsa and they had no complaints on this one. Most of their trouble has been in AZ and NV.
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Lots of people think they've been screwed by SSH because they want you to pay up front, and if you can't complete your training they say you don't get your money back. Have your friend log onto www.verticalreference.com and look for SSH posts before he gives them a dime.

For example, give him this thread:

http://verticalreference.com/helicopterforum/index.php?showtopic=7138
 
iHover: I see a lot of the debate over there, but there's so much that I don't even bother to sift through it.

I don't want to start a thread over there asking about SSH because they usually get out of hand, maybe you'll know.

I'm wondering if the complaints with SSH are restricted to people who don't complete their training. If a person completes the whole program, do they usually get what they pay for?
 
bqmassey said:
iHover: I see a lot of the debate over there, but there's so much that I don't even bother to sift through it.

I don't want to start a thread over there asking about SSH because they usually get out of hand, maybe you'll know.

I'm wondering if the complaints with SSH are restricted to people who don't complete their training. If a person completes the whole program, do they usually get what they pay for?
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I dunno, never having had any association at all with SSH. But if I were thinking about starting primary training, I'd want to follow some of those threads before committing myself. I think I would treat the fact that there is so much controversy on VR as a warning flag. It's the only school that I recall seeing slammed like that there.

And I agree with you -- let's not get a thread going here -- let's keep that at VR. I just wanted to make sure his friend took at look at what's on VR and then make up his own mind.
 
Other than what has been written here about SSH all I know is that I did like the chopper that was built for them on American Chopper. Was not one of the better ones IMHO, but the episode was a good one as it was the first one I had seen in HD.
 
Just google silver state helicopter lawsuit and see what ya get - it's pretty scary and certainly doesn't make ME (who dearly loves helicopters) want to go there!
 
I haven't herd anything good. They just opened a few miles from me.
 
Dean said:
An old co-worker/friend called me the other night and told me he was signing up for helicopter training through Silver State in Tulsa. OK. I saw on the net where there had been several law suits against them for fails advertising and not coming through on their promises made at their seminars. If any of you know anything about them, send me a PM so I can give him a heads up. He checked with the BBB in Tulsa and they had no complaints on this one. Most of their trouble has been in AZ and NV.
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Well, here's a couple of things to consider, they're all over the airwaves and busses advertizing, that tells you right there that they need to have a profit margine above and beyond everyone elses to support that. Next thing, they are advertizing a glamourous and well paying in demand career. I'm not sure what your concept of well paying or glamourous is, but most professional helo pilots I know don't have one that passes muster for me. As for "In Demand", if you just came out of the service with enough turbine helo time to sit your ATP ride, yep, you're in demand.... for a $45,000 a year job where you get to spend a lot of your time living on oil platforms and hanging out in wonderful places like Fourchon (pronounced Foo Shon). Next: I called them up about a C-RW add on..."Hello, I'm a commercially rated fixed wing pilot with a couple of thousand hours and want to know what it would cost to do a Commercial Rotor Wing add on to that?", "$70,000","Uhhh, isn't that your ab-initio price?","Yes it is","Then why would I be charged that when when I already have a commercial rating in airplanes?","Because your license is fixed wing and this is Helicopter and you have to do the full course.", "Ok, thanks, bye".

So lets add this up, they lie and they don't know what they're talking about....
 
Although I can't speak for their training as I'm not a customer of theirs, I can regale you with some stories of dealing with them as I fly out of the same airport they do here in Jax. I don't think there's many people at CRG who would say they are happy about SSH being there.

The reasons are many but these are the ones that irk me the most:

From what I understand, they have the students do the radio work from day one and the instructors will not take over under any circumstances. I'm all for letting students give the radio a try early but if they're taking up too much time FOR CRYING OUT LOUD interrupt them and get off the freq!

The result: about 5 or more copters at any point with this (without lettting up on the PPT the entire time, I might add):
"Helicopter 123a...uh....ALPHA! 123ALPHA Ohio..no OSCAR is *what now?* oh! Is at Silver State and would like to...uhm....what are we...? Oh yeah! would like to hover taxi *is that right?* to uhm the runway?"

You can almost hear the guy in the tower banging his head on the table (or whatever they have up there). Did I mention that I'm usually on downwind trying to report midfield when this stuff goes on?

I also hear this frequently...
Tower: HELICOPTER 123AB GET OFF THE RUNWAY NOW!
Tower: LandingPlane 123CD go around please.
Tower: Helicopter 123AB call this number when you decide to start moving again.

They only been there for a couple months but I've done more Go around practice thanks to them than in my entire bit of training.

Granted, go around practice is never a bad thing but when I'm out there for much needed practice on my soft fields...well....anyway.

I just don't have high hopes for the students when the instructors will let them get away with that kind of stuff with no intervention.
 
I personally have a problem with the whole package paid up front with no refunds.

Also I'd be surprised as all get out if Henning takes 100 hrs to get his C-RW and that comes out to $700/hr.

Joe
 
i had a friend get burned really bad by TAB Express and Key Bank on a pay in advance no refund type of training setup. really really bad.
 
Well good news, I got him talked out of SSH and talked into using Mid West out of SUS. I know several pilots that have used them and were very happy. They are a "pay as you go" company with a good reputation in this part of the country.
 
tonycondon said:
i had a friend get burned really bad by TAB Express and Key Bank on a pay in advance no refund type of training setup. really really bad.
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For any of you out there that has been taken by this Silver State scheme. You need to look into an on going lawsuit that has been in play since Sept 2005. It was filed in Florida and is referenced as Bergen vs. Key Bank. This isn't the first school failure and it is not limited to helicopters or aviation for that matter. What you that have been defrauded have come to focus on is the crook up close (the schools and they are crooks) but you haven't seen the bigger crook behind the scenes. Even the lawyers floating around Silver State have not made the connection to the real bandits. THE BANKS ARE THE ENABLERS! Don't believe me? Do a search on how many vocational schools have failed just since 2000 that include everything from aviation, computer tech, and nursing. In each instance, look for the similarity in the same banks as lender. The student is used as the credit risk. They could care less if the school is fly by night because they feel that they are protected by you having "your" neck on the line not the school. They "The Banks" know that if the school goes under they probably won't recoup their money from them anyway but YOU on the other hand are their ace in the hole. They insulate themselves by being able to come after the student for the money and get most of them to pay. They'll never get money out of the school that's why they really don't care about the schools credit worthiness or accreditation. The history of this practice bears out the fact that THE BANKS continued to lend to shady schools, school failure after school failure. The devil in the fraud is the bank. Did you ever see the $?... or did the bank just send it straight to the school as I'm sure they did. Don't you think the bank then is in business with the school and vice versa? The only innocent person left holding the bag is you. Get your attorneys to look at that case in Florida. It is the way to victory and justice.
 
FYI: The Better Business Bureau ( BBB ) is a member based, privately owned, for profit franchise.

What this means is the BBB cannot report on business which are not members. And they are very reluctant to negatively report* on their members since the membership is how the BBB generates their income.

*I give the benefit of the doubt that the BBB may issue negative reports but I have never heard of that happening.
 
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So now the BANK is required to perform due diligence? Whatever happened to buyer beware?

It sucks that all these people got screwed, but the writing was on the wall for at least a year. Search for "Silver State" on this board and you'll pull up info about Silver State (shoot, just look at this thread!!). Google it and you'll find similar.
 
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FWIW, it is still the responsibility of the students (adults, last I checked) to verify the legitimacy of the school, and the financial terms under which they are attending. This includes borrowed funds.

I know of probably ten flight schools within a 20 mile radius of where I sit, all legitimate and all accepting funding through bank loans (including Key Bank, which specializes in placing such loans). Shall we now eliminate a significant part of the funding which allows them to operate, and allows many students to get their flight training?
 
Ripped Off said:
For any of you out there that has been taken by this Silver State scheme. You need to look into an on going lawsuit that has been in play since Sept 2005. It was filed in Florida and is referenced as Bergen vs. Key Bank. This isn't the first school failure and it is not limited to helicopters or aviation for that matter. What you that have been defrauded have come to focus on is the crook up close (the schools and they are crooks) but you haven't seen the bigger crook behind the scenes. Even the lawyers floating around Silver State have not made the connection to the real bandits. THE BANKS ARE THE ENABLERS! Don't believe me? Do a search on how many vocational schools have failed just since 2000 that include everything from aviation, computer tech, and nursing. In each instance, look for the similarity in the same banks as lender. The student is used as the credit risk. They could care less if the school is fly by night because they feel that they are protected by you having "your" neck on the line not the school. They "The Banks" know that if the school goes under they probably won't recoup their money from them anyway but YOU on the other hand are their ace in the hole. They insulate themselves by being able to come after the student for the money and get most of them to pay. They'll never get money out of the school that's why they really don't care about the schools credit worthiness or accreditation. The history of this practice bears out the fact that THE BANKS continued to lend to shady schools, school failure after school failure. The devil in the fraud is the bank. Did you ever see the $?... or did the bank just send it straight to the school as I'm sure they did. Don't you think the bank then is in business with the school and vice versa? The only innocent person left holding the bag is you. Get your attorneys to look at that case in Florida. It is the way to victory and justice.
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So the Bank is supposed to do your research and thinking for you?
 
Richard said:
FYI: The Better Business Bureau ( BBB ) is a member based, privately owned, for profit franchise.

What this means is the BBB cannot report on business which are not members. And they are very reluctant to negatively report* on their members since the membership is how the BBB generates their income.

*I give the benefit of the doubt that the BBB may issue negative reports but I have never heard of that happening.
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WAIT! The Better Business Bureau is a business that may not do what they say they do?!? Someone should report them to the BBB! [/sarcasm]

If it weren't for one of these loans through Sallie May, I'd still be working over nights at the TV station and generally hating life.

Of course the banks are going to give money to you no matter what you're going to spend it on...it's not their responsibility to tell you where you can and cannot spend your money; I think there would be a lot more law suits if they tried. It's up to the person taking the loan to know where that money is going, not the institution granting it. If it was up to the banks, don't you think they'd be in partnerships with the car companies so they get a kick back because Bank X will only give you a loan if you buy Car Y? They don't care (nor should they) how you spend your money, so long as they get theirs. Welcome to the wonderful world of business.
 
I've checked out businesses in Tulsa's BBB before. Might as well phone up their PR firm.
 
Ripped Off said:
For any of you out there that has been taken by this Silver State scheme. You need to look into an on going lawsuit that has been in play since Sept 2005. It was filed in Florida and is referenced as Bergen vs. Key Bank. This isn't the first school failure and it is not limited to helicopters or aviation for that matter. What you that have been defrauded have come to focus on is the crook up close (the schools and they are crooks) but you haven't seen the bigger crook behind the scenes. Even the lawyers floating around Silver State have not made the connection to the real bandits. THE BANKS ARE THE ENABLERS! Don't believe me? Do a search on how many vocational schools have failed just since 2000 that include everything from aviation, computer tech, and nursing. In each instance, look for the similarity in the same banks as lender. The student is used as the credit risk. They could care less if the school is fly by night because they feel that they are protected by you having "your" neck on the line not the school. They "The Banks" know that if the school goes under they probably won't recoup their money from them anyway but YOU on the other hand are their ace in the hole. They insulate themselves by being able to come after the student for the money and get most of them to pay. They'll never get money out of the school that's why they really don't care about the schools credit worthiness or accreditation. The history of this practice bears out the fact that THE BANKS continued to lend to shady schools, school failure after school failure. The devil in the fraud is the bank. Did you ever see the $?... or did the bank just send it straight to the school as I'm sure they did. Don't you think the bank then is in business with the school and vice versa? The only innocent person left holding the bag is you. Get your attorneys to look at that case in Florida. It is the way to victory and justice.
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This has to be a joke, if not, you have no idea how the real world works.

"BANKS ARE EVIL!!!!!!"

:rolleyes:
 
If the school had any credit lines, I'd have to wonder if the notes had a personal guarantee or if ownership hid behind the entity. If the former, there may have been signs of a week financial structure long before the fall of the empire.
 
KennyFlys said:
there may have been signs of a week financial structure long before the fall of the empire.
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Weak financial structure? Ya think? I bet the number of FBOs/flight schools with robust financial structures is limited to the Military. And that's only because Uncle is paying. They all have weak financial structures!

-Skip
 
After reading that, I can't believe that so many just handed over thousands of dollars up front. That would be like paying for your 4 year college degree when you walk in the door as a freshman.
 
Dean said:
After reading that, I can't believe that so many just handed over thousands of dollars up front. That would be like paying for your 4 year college degree when you walk in the door as a freshman.
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There are people who are desperate for their dream to come true and will believe any ole snake oil salesman to get what they hope is their wish granted.
 
smigaldi said:
There are people who are desperate for their dream to come true and will believe any ole snake oil salesman to get what they hope is their wish granted.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering if some of those snake oil salesmen could be held accountable by selling the school as being in great financial condition this last year. Their questionable viability has been in the news for sometime.
 
This is from Wikipedia

Bankruptcy

Silver State Helicopters filed a petition with the US Bankruptcy Court for liquidation under Chapter 7 of the bankruptcy code and ceased all operations on February 3, 2008, at 1733 hours Pacific Standard Time.[3]

At the time operations ended, the company had more than 800 employees and 2500 students. Employees of the company had no warning of the bankruptcy filing and all had their employment terminated on the same date. Students have been left with millions of dollars of debt.[1]

The company released a statement saying that the closure without warning was due to “a rapid, unprecedented downturn in the U.S. credit markets” which had curtailed the availability of student loans for the company’s students and that this then resulted in a “sharp and sudden downturn in new student enrollment.”[1]

Silver State Helicopters' assests are now listed at USD$50,000. Silver State Helicopters owes 5,000 creditors between USD$10 and USD$50 million dollars.[2]

Students and their attorneys are organizing class-action lawsuits against the company and its owner Jerry Airola. They may also sue the banks that lent student loans due to the high interest rates and terms of the loans.[8]
 
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